1939 Wipers

[Roadkingcoupe]

I consider myself knowledgeable on the differences between the 1939 Plymouths built in the US and Canada.
I have posted many times before about those differences. True that there were no differences between the VERTS (they were all made in the US). However, all other models have many differences that do not change the aesthetic look of the car but might drive the rebuilder a little crazy. All Canadian (Canuck) cars in 1939 have the longer 25" motor. The Chrysler Corp had just finished the Windsor motor plant and it was decided to outfit all Cdn cars with the longer block motor. This was accomplished with a slight change to the mounting flange on the rad and by flipping the rad surround to place the rad 2" forward in the nose of the car. The moulding (stainless on a US car) is all pot metal on Canadian cars, ironic because the Cdn winters were brutal on the chromed pot metal and the mouldings literally disiintegrated on the car. Other noticeable differences are the parking brake assembly and the fresh air vent assemlbly. There are quite a few other differences that time and memory do not allow today . Another noteable point is the production of CDN Dodges based on the 1939 Plymouth bodies. These cars had the badging and grill similar to the US Dodges but were really 1939 CDN made Plymouths "dressed" up to look like a Dodge. I currently own a 1941 CDN Dodge coupe that is a Plymouth bodied Dodge. At this point in time it is the finest surviving example of a 1941 CDN built Dodge Busi coupe with just over 410000 original (documented) miles on it. In addition I do have both US and CDN built 1939 Plymouths and have disassembled many of them over the last twenty years. Please feel free to email me with any questions. Great topic.

[Don St Peter]

I have a number of wiper blades but none that will fit my 40 P-9 which have the hole in the wiper arm that attaches to the mechanism. If you describe what you are looking for perhaps we can do a trade.
Don

[1939P8]

Jim:  I was reading your post from last January 2006 re wipers for a 39.  Do you have other parts for a 39 P8? Gary at .

[Jim Benjaminson]

Andy - Living most of my life within 20 miles of the Canadian border, I wish I could answer that question about the trim on Canadian cars -- but there are so few of them around I haven't been able to make any comparisons.  I have seen one 1940 Canadian Plymouth with different trim than a US car - there are two 1940 coupes that show up at the local shows but they've been modified and of course chrome trim is usually taken off these cars......  I bought a '39 convertible in Canada some years ago but it had been sold new by Mother MoPar to Chrysler Canada, as they didn't make convertible north of the border, so no differences.  The car was shipped with the USA small block motor so its owners must have had fun getting parts when needed!  I do have a Canadian parts book but it doesn't go back before 1942 to compare pieces/part numbers.......Jim B

[Wm Steed]

Andy,  great picture of your wiper assy.  The assembly you have is nothing like the wiper transmissions on any of the 39 Plyms I have seen. I parted out a sedan last year that was of eastern US manufacture, the wipers were over the windshield. I have hands on experience with two conv's, my car which is a western car, ( Los Angeles Plant) and an eastern car (Detroit) which I am currently assisting with the restoration.  The exterior portion of the assemblies you have are simular to the open car assemlies I have seen, however, the interior portion, with the "transimissions" is nothing like a US car. The assemblies I have seen are nothing more than a simple pivot with the drive arms riveted to the pivot arm which is "riveted" to the wiper drive shaft. On my car I slid the drive shaft out of the housings and lubricated it with white lithium grease. Actually the assembly was in pretty good shape considering it had not been lubricated since leaving the factor 66 years prior to my maintenance.

I have worked on, or owned, several cars  during the past 50 + years, the majority of the vehicle had wiper "transmissions" that are simular to the style found on the 39 Plym Conv. the exception being the cars manufactured by GM. The GM cars started using a wiper transmission assembly that is usually made by Anco/Trico some time in the early 1930's, that is gear and chain driven simular to the assembly  shown in your picture.

It is iinteresting to note that I have seen a lot of the "pivot" type wiper assemblies that have come apart from use, where-as you very seldom see a GM style "transmisssion"wiper assemby that has come apart from use.

The parts books I have reviewed show nothing different for the export cars, therefore, I guess one would have to assume that cars manufactured outside of the US used something different  on the wiper assemblies.....Bill

[Andy Wylie]

heh, I know that reaction Bill. I've known people to get very sniffy about their badged Plymouths "oh no genuine Detroit..."
That's a great resource I wasn't aware of JimCno, thanks!
Jim B I'm fairly certain they're not local content, Bill might be able to verify it from this pic...




You're dead right about the Todd and Richard's cars having major differences Jim and both seem to have used parts from earlier models.
The Todd cars have alot of diecast instead of stainless, the hood side vents are one great lump, do you know if the Canadian cars also had these?

[Wm Steed]

Based on what I have read in various books concerning old cars.... all of the 37,38 Mopar convertables, be it DeSoto, Chrysler, etc, all used the same basic bodies, therefore there is no difference between  between the windshield wipers, windwings and basic body componets. 
Several months ago I met a man that had  a Chrysler conv. coupe, I told him that his car and my 39 Plym were the same cars except for the V windshield, he got very indignant with me for implying that a Chrysler and a LOWLY Plymouth were the same cars. I know the hood, fenders  and mechanical componets are different, yet the doors, hinges and basic body lines were the same as my Plym....Bill

[JimCno]

According to Lightning in a Jar - http://www.lightningjar.com/cars/%20mopar/decoders/partnumbers/searchpartnumbers.php - that number shows - D, DS, C 39  WIPER PIVOT & ARM ASSY (Dodge, DeSoto, Chrysler)

[Jim Benjaminson]

Hi Andy - just another thought.  Being sourced from Australia, its very probably the wipers were one of the "local content" items used on the car.  Was looking at some photos today (besides the '39 Ute photos you sent me) and can pick out many, many differences between Aussie built and U.S./Canadian built cars.  Considering Todd Motors built vehicles in New Zealand and T. J. Richards in Australia, I'm guessing there were major differences between those two builders as well!

[Andy Wylie]

Thank you for looking that up for me Jim, I think it's curious more than one vendor seems to have it wrong so I'll contact them and see where they're getting their application info.
I have a Windsor preliminary parts list covering all 39 cars and a Detroit Dodge one. Neither list that number and the preliminary book doesn't list anything for convertible coupes.The Dodge one however does list them for D12 and 13 convertible coupes but it's not very clear...

"Long arm............... 798493
Short arm.............. 798496"

these are listed as arm and pivot assemblies Bill, I assumed the long and short arm are the linkages, the wiper arms are listed as

Arm R 798497
Arm L 798498

"Nut....................... 798492"

I assume this is the chromed pivot retaining nut, the arm retaining nut is most definitely 628665 as I purchased an NOS one from Leon Silke, it's a tiny 5/32-32 thread. This seemed to confirm to me Australian cars used convertible coupe wipers but with a Bosch electric motor.
The other 39 Chrysler cars seem to have used a larger 3/16-32 (U.S. 10-32) thread with an acorn style rather than the tapered nut. 1937-40 Fords used a tapered nut but with the larger 3/16 thread, their open car arms look like they could be shortened if the mounting hole is not too large.
I'd considered putting 3/16 studs in my pivots so I could use the commonly available Ford nuts but have had an offer to turn me up some if I can locate some 3/8 stainless hex. I've had the chromed pivot washers that go against the cowl turned up, I just had to file the hole square and the curve into the back.
I think I'll use a 68-70 VW beetle Bosch 12v 2spd motor which is very similar (but larger) to my original 6v unit, the crank even has the same throw.
I'm glad you retained your original wipers Bill, I doubt you could have found anything else so petit :)

[Wm Steed]

In the nine years that I have been working on my 39 Plym Conv I have never seen any parts for sale for the wind shield wipers.  The wipers on the conv's and station wagons were mounted on the cowl in lieu of the header panel like the cars. The motor is located behind the dash on the left near the hand brake, there is a short arm and a long arm.  The hand brake in the Conv's/Wagon's is mounted differently than the cars, it is offset to the left, closer to the cowl to allow for room for the wiper motor.
I have found that most of the people selling parts on eBay have no idea what they are selling.............

According to my Plym Parts List dated 2/20/39 the part numbers are listed in the below:

Long arm............... 798493
Short arm.............. 798496
Nut....................... 798492
Lock washer........... 121601
Washer, brass......... 837977

There is no other open cars in the entire Chrysler line other than the Plym's in 1939 so the selection/availibility is very limited.

I was going to discard my assembly in favor of and aftermarket unit, fortunately I did not because the space is very limited especially if you want to retain the original radio like I did. I modified a 12v wiper motor from a Dodge/Plym Van rear window wiper so that it would hook up to my arms.....wha la....electric wipers for less than $20.00 and two hours of work.

The wiper transmissions from a 40 Ford might work on the Plym's, these unit would be readily available from Drake or one of the other early V8 vendors.....Bill

[Jim Benjaminson]

843958 doesn't show up in either the 1939-1940 or 1941 Plymouth parts books.

[Andy Wylie]

I recently purchased a #843958 wiper pivot on eBay said to suit all 1939 mopars, it turned out the shaft is thicker and shorter that the conv coupe and wagon style I was after and upon checking this doesn't even seem to be a 39 number.
I see another vendor also offering one as a1939 part but not Plymouth this time. I suspect it's a 1940 part, can anyone verify?