I was recently given a heads up by one of the POC regulars that another '37-39 Ford Conv coupe side window had been listed on ebay. After the drubbing I took with the 6/5/07 listing for a 37-39 Ford window I was reluctant to bother to bid.. I finally contacted the seller, asking him for more pictures and some clarifications on the measurements of the window.

I had to make up my mind what would be the best course of action. I had located a metal fabracator that had assured me he could make a window frame for us out of stainless steel which would be almost undetectable from the original. The problem was he would not commit to a price quote, only an houry rate. Hmmmmm.?
I finally decided that I would take a run at the window assy on ebay, thinking that if I got it and it would not work on the Plym I could always resell it.

The bidding started out real slow so I just sat back, assuming my best sniper possition. I know that a lot of my friends have progressed from doing their own bidding on ebay, preferring to use one of the bidding services that have emerge. As for me.... I prefer to do my own bidding, I think it takes away from the ebay experance using a third party to do the bidding.

A day before the close of bidding I fired off a bid that made me high bidder, then a few hours before the close of bidding I fired off another bid which in realiity made me a bidder against myself. I then sat back and waited for the clock to run down to the last minute where-in I fired off my final bid. I got the window for what I fell was a fair price, way below the $910 bid on 6/5..

I received the window frame yesterday, it is beautiful.  All of the guide rollers are intack and in good shape and the stainless is near perfect.. The only problem is that the angle that abutts to the windshield is slightly different from the Plym frame, being off by almost an inch at the top. I am going to take the frame to my fabricator and see if he can modify it to fit the Plym, or do I sell it and have him make us a new one?

So the bottom line of this storey is..... The Ford & Plym window frames are near identical, sharing a lot of the same design features and hardware, but they are not interchangeable.....Bill

I was taliking to a friend of mine a couple of days ago about our favorite subject.... cars.
Our discussion got around to the simularity I had noted in the windows for the '37/39 DPCD's conv. coupes and the '37/39 Ford conv's.  My friend was aware that Brigg's had made bodies for Ford starting with the Model T's and Model A's, however, he thought that Chrysler had purchased Briggs in the early 1930's, thereby ending Ford's association with Briggs. I told my friend that I was under the believe that Chrysler did not purchase Briggs until sometime in the mid 1950's.

I was sitting at my computer while talking to my friend so I goggled "Briggs".  It turns out that I was pretty well correct, Briggs was purchased by Chrysler in the mid 1950's, if I recall correctly, 1953. The intesting part about the history of Briggs was that they really walked a fine line for many years, designing and building bodies for Chrysler, Ford, Hudson and Packard. In the Briggs history it also noted that by the early 1930's the relationship between Briggs and Ford had deteriated to the point that Briggs was only suppling open car bodies to Ford..... it would appear that the "blood lines" between the DPCD and  Ford conv's is as closely aligned as I thought....Bill

Resently on ebay there was a listing for '37, 38, 39 Ford Cabrolet side window frames, item #160122451064. The listing ended on 6/5/07 @17:19.
I looked the listing over when it first appeared because I have '37 Ford listed in my ebay favorites. Upon viewing the windows I noted that they appeared to be very simular to the '37/39 DPCD conv. coupe windows.

I wondered?.... could the Ford and DPCD's convertibles use the same side windows? It was possible..... because Briggs was a major supplier of bodies to Ford during the 1930's. I sent a question to the listing party asking for more pictures and measurements on the windows. The listing party responded to my questions with the pic's and measurements. The details shown in the pictures and the measurements showed the windows to be identical to the 37/39 DPCD window frames.

I was interested in the window frames because the Alabama car ('39 conv. coupe) I have written about before, is missing one window frame which we have not been able to come up with yet.

I made the decision for my friend that owns the Alabama car that it was worth a gamble to try and win the window frames, because if it turned out that they would not work in his car, we could always sell them. The bidding started at $400, sitting there for a few days and finally moving up to $542 by late 6/4. The counter showed that there was only six bidders by 6/4, so upon conferring  with my friend I decided to bid $800.+  and just blow everyone away.

I waited until the last minute, actually less than a minute,  and fired my bid in.  I was bidder number 10.... WAM BANG!!... the bidding went to 28 bidders in less than a wink of an eye and I was shot out of the water with the winning bid being $910.  :-[

I guess I learned something out of the whole affair, I need to expand my seach for a window for the '39 Plym to include the Ford/Merc line of convertibles, instead of just looking in the DPCD world .....Bill

AH Shucks!.... Gary, you are to kind.
There is no two ways about it, the '39 Plym's are without  a doubt the best looking vehicle in the entire Chrysler line for 1939. The placement of the rectangular head lights in the horizonal position in lieu of verticle like the rest of the Chrysler line was a pure stroke of genius. Think about it....  rectangular head lights were not used again until Ford used them on the 1978 trucks.

I have to admit that I am not to fond of the '39 sedans and the tops on the coupes are a little small, a couple more inches in the quarter window area would have improved the look, but when it comes to the convertible coupes, I tend to be very bias in my thinking that there is nothing in the entire industry for 1939 that can come close to the style the Plym's have....Bill

Bill, I have a better idea.  I have been waiting for ages for the bulletin to do a special edition on the 39 plymouth again.  I can't think of anyone who would be better to write such an article.  I keep reading about other plymouths, but its time to revisit the 39 again.  Gary

WOW!!!!  The "visiters" to this topic hit 3000, twice as many as any other topic on the forum. 
I don't know if the high readership is a result of my superior knowledge of the '39 Plym conv's, or if it's a matter of people wondering what kind of nonsense I am going to babble about.  ;D

It has been suggested to me by Jim B. that I write and article that would be published in the POC Bulliten about the wind wings for the '37/41 Plym conv's.
I have a lot of information and pictures of the WW's except for good close up pictures of an early '40 conv. with a body number prior to 1401.  I have been told by a fellow that has the  Chrysler parts books to back it up, that the all of the DPCD convertiibles used the same basic body shell so the 1401 body number could apply to the Dodge, Chrysler and DeSoto conv's....Bill

I have been rebuilding and/or messing with cars since I was fourteen and learned at a very early age... that when it comes to desirable cars or parts, if you snooze you loose.  We all have the urge to save money, and I am no exception. When I first started looking for wind wings for my '39 Plym, in about 1998, I could have purchased a brand new pair for $450. by the time I made up my mind to step up to the plate and buy the WW's in 2005 the price had ratched up to $1,200 a pair. By the time I had digested the bitter pill of $1,200, the fellow that was making them ceased to fabricate the '37-41 WW's because of an inability to get a foundry to cast the brass stanchions. I have since solved the problem but at a much greater price that the $450 it would have cost me in 1998.

The false economy of trying to save money brings to mind a little story:

Adam is in the Garden of Eden lamenting that there was nothing to do. A big booming voice from above asks.... what are you doing Adam?  Adam responds... nothing God.... there is nothing to do here.  God responds... I guess I should have created two of you so that you would have company. God thinks for a few minutes, then tells Adam.... I am going to create a help-mate for you. The help-mate will respond to your every comand, cooking and cleaning your house for you, she will also be a companion to you, taking care of your personal needs.... God says I will call this person Women. Adam asks what are my personal needs? God responds you will find out about this when she gets here.

Adam thinks for a few minutes, then asks God.... what will this person cost me? God responds.... an arm and a leg.... Adam replys... can't I get something a little cheaper?....Bill

You are right, I had forgotten that it was you that had offered those to me before.  I was off the discussion board for about a year and lost track of that.  Also, I was hoping to find something for less.  If I recall, after hearing your price I tried to fabricate the tail light buckets but they did not come out too well.  I have all the parts in good condition but for the rusted buckets.  So thank you for the response.   I will probably kick my self for not responding to your offer back then.   Gary

Hi Gary,
I think that you possibly have had a lapse of memory.
In January of 2004 and again in April 2004 we  had almost the same dialog about your need for tail lights, spare tire mount, grille stainless trim and a hood hinge center  At the time I quoted you prices for the parts and gave you my phone number. After our last exchange of emails on 4/13/04 I heard nothing more from you until your recent postings to the forum.

I sold the outer tail light buckets that I offered to you for $125. each to a fellow in Canada early last year. As I mentioned in my resent posting to the forum, I still have the NOS boxed sets of tail light assy  which I offered to you in 2004.  As things have turned out, I am not so sure I want to sell the TL's now, they are getting harder to come by and are more pricey. I have seen the TL assy. go for $375 + each, with out the outer bucket, on ebay....Bill

Bill:  I am definitely interested in the tail lights.  Do you have a suggested retail price for me to consider?  I think I will look for a chance to travel down to your area as I would definitely like to look over the parts you have before they are gone.  Do you, by any chance have any of those long horns that are shaped like trumpets for that model?  Gary

Gary'
I am located in Ventura............
I actually have  a large stock of body parts, including two complete sets of wheels, front/rear bumpers w/guards, including a complete very hard to find original equipment grille guard, two sets of front fenders and two grille shells. I also have a lot of lighting stuff, head/tail lights.  I have two complete sets of tail lights, NOS in the boxes, including the lower buckets. I have a spare tire mounting bracket w/bolt for a coupe, but I don't think I have the wing nut.
Now that I am about finished with the restoration of my Plym I am going to start selling off the excess parts I have....Bill

What city are you located in.  I travel around the state for work at times and might like to look at some of the spare parts and offer to buy them?  As indicated before, I am in Fresno.  I understand what you say about radials.  When radials first came out, the side walls were not what they are now.  There have been a lot of improvements on radial tires over the past 30 years that I can recall.  While I am thinking of it, I have a spare tire holder that will hold the tire behind the driver's seat, but the threaded nut or wing nut device to hold the tire in place did not come with the car when I found it.  Got one of those or know where I can get one.  Let me know what other parts you have available and maybe it would be worth the time to come and look at them.  Gary

Gary,
There is absolutly no reason to NOT use radials on your car. There are a few adjustments that you will have to make on your front end alignment but that is not a big deal.
A P225/75R15 tire is the same size as a 600x16 , the P225 is a little wider than the 600x16 but should not pose a problem if you have a 6" wheel with a back set of about 4.5 inches.

The problem with tires, bias ply vs radial, is that to many people have their mind made up against the radial tires thinking that the radials are only proper on newer cars. The same is true with the controversial issue of detergent, non-detergent oil in older engines. I have used nothing but radial tires on every vehicle I have owned since the early 1970's.

It has taken me eleven years to get my car to the point that it is, about 95% done, because of the rarity of the convertables and the suit case full of money the restoration has cost. As I have reported earlier here on the forum, there are two other factors that governed the time line.... the car had been customized in the late 1940's, all of the stainless/chrome trim removed and the holes for same welded up.  To add to my problems the car had sat in an open field in Montana for thirty-eight years. When the car was parked in 1958, it was just another old worn out car.

In your posting to the forum you mentioned that you needed some stainless pieces for your grille. I have two complete sets plus some spare pieces which I will not need for my car. I also have a very nice spare radio and a very nice hood ornament. Actually, as I stated in my earlier posting,  I have a lot of body parts for the '39 Plyms....Bill   

Thanks Bill - the information was very helpful.  I hope it does not take me 11 years to finish.  I have been at it about 4 years now, but expect to be done in about a year.  I will probably stay with the 15" wheels.  On tires, I have heard to stay away from radials - do you agree and since so many of the new tires are radial, is the size you mentioned not radial?  Also, there are a few parts I am looking for - hinges for the back trunk, a few stainless steel pieces for the front grill, radio, tail light buckets and a few knobs for the dash.  I have access to a 39 Chrysler for spare parts also and have some extra parts that include a front and rear bumper, transmission (floor shift) master brake cylinder, generator, drive line and some door handles.  I do have most of the original glass from my windows also as I have had new safety glass cut for it when I finish the interior and painting.  Thanks again for the information.  Gary

Gary,
Your question about tire sizes is some what of a difficult question to answer.
The '39 Plyms were originally equiptd with 16 x 4.5 wheels using a 600x16 bias ply tire. In about 1949 or 1950 Chrysler and the majority of car manufactures went to the 15" wheel.  The early 15" wheels that were used on the Chrysler built vehicles have the spring hub cap clips which are simular to the '39 Plym wheels so they work well on the prewar cars.  If the wheels on your car do not have inside spring clips then you have later model wheels from either a Chrysler built vehicle or a Ford.  The '49 Ford car wheels have the same bolt pattern a Chrysler built vehicles.

The  difference between 15" & 16" wheels is insignificant, the difference is in the availiblity and cost of the tires.. If  you intend to keep your car stock then you are going to be limited to 600 x 16 bias ply tube type tires that are pretty spendy ($$$$)  You will also find that with stock bias ply tires your car will drive like a lumber wagon which is fine if you only intend to drive the car in parades and llimited hiway driving. Tubeless 15" tires will give you a better ride, but your car will still drive like a lumber wagon when compared to a modern car. 

Many of the prewar/postwar cars that are driven a lot by the owners have been switched to radial tires, usually in a 15" size. Why 15"? ... because they are availible off the shelf at most tire dealers at reasonable prices..  As a result of a vast majority of newer vehicles having 16" wheels, 16" radials are more common, however, these tires are not usually a good idea on older wheels because of the rim width. Most modern wheels have a rim width of 6.5"/7." or wider. The early wheels with 4.5 rims pinch the side walls in causing poor tread contact to the road.

Another factor to keep in mind when selecting tires is the overall diameter of the tires.  A 600 x 16 tire is generally 27.5" tall,  smaller tires will effect the overall gear ratior which is quite low at 3.9.  The majority of the prewar cars that are driven any distance on the open road have been modified with overdrives.

I have P205R60-15 tires on my car with 15x7 rims, my gear ratio is 3.23 with an overdrive trans.

As a result of my eleven year project to rebuild my '39, I have aquired a large stock of parts, wheels, gauges, trim, radio's, etc., if I can help you with any parts please contact me....Bill

William:  We both live in California and have 39 plymouths.  You can probably be of great help to me as I am in the middle of restoring a p8 business coupe.  The question I have is what are the stock rim sizes for our cars.  I bought mine and it came with 15" rims, but I think it takes 16" rims originally.  Do you know for sure?  What size do you have on your convertible?  Is there any difference in feel or ride between those rims, or is it just an issue of what was originally with the vehicle?  Your comments would be appreciated.   Gary

Hi Bill -  Sorry to hear about your friend Howard.  Things like that happen.  Yesterday the wife and I attended a benefit for a former fellow co-worker who was diagnosed with bone cancer.  We got to the benefit to find out he'd passed away about an hour before.....62 years old, 30+ years with the NDHP and several years with CBP.....

I had intended to take my Plym to the 07 POC National meet in Santa Maria. I was going to enter it in a special modified class that the Golden State Region of the POC had created for this meet.  The thinking behind the modified class was that a lot of members of the POC have cars that are modified, even if it is just a newer engine or an overdrive.

Unfortunitly for me and my Plym, a sudden death of my good friend and fellow car show mate, Howard,  on Thursday morning altered my plans dramaticly. Since I had been given the job of securing items for the "goody bags" to be passed out to the registered attende's, I made a flying trip up to Santa Maria in my everyday vehicle delivering the goods and returning home.

I guess it is not much of a testiment to the reliability of my Plym, not wanting to make a high speed run of over two hundred miles, paritally in the dark, and I know Howard would be dissapointed in me because he thought so highly of my Plym, but then..... sometimes one must do what has to be done....Bill

Bill..,

Very Cool.., I personally get a great deal of joy watching people who are not in the hobby get excited about seeing a beautiful old car especially if it is mine.?

Cars in Museums are great to look at but cars on the road bring joy to everyone who sees them.?

Great Job and Congratulations,? ?I bet there might be one or two people under 25 who may now be adding your car to their future want list.? Even with all the hotrod Chevys floating around.

Chet??

Congratulations!!

I guess I should not blow my own horn, especially here on the POC DB, but then again.... what better place.

I took the '39 Plymouth to a car show today. The show was not brand specific, there were stockers and street rods, Cad's, Chevies, Buicks, Fords, (roadster and conv.) and even a '40  Merc  4dr conv.   I entered the car in the '35/40 open car division.
The Plym convertable are so rare that anytime I take it to a car show it is usually mobbed with people looking at it and asking endless questions.  The car show today was no exception.

The Plym faired very well in the judging today, taking a first place in it's division....Bill

I am feeling pretty darn smart today, actually smiling within since yesterday afternoon....

In my quest to keep my '39 Plym as close to original as possible, while at the same time upgrading it to a vehicle that was safer and easy to drive.  One of my many conversions was to converted the car to power steering which required the conversion of the steering column. Converting the steering column to a unit that was compartable with the steering also made the conversion to turn lights and hazard lights easy.  The down side of the conversion ment that the '39 Banjo wheel would not fit onto the new steering column.

In the hope that I could find a replacement wheel that would look good in the car, I looked at most of the after market banjo type wheels that are offered. Most of them left me cold because they either were patterned after the '38/39 Ford style of wheel or they were very cheaply made affairs.  About three years ago I encountered a '36 Chrysler Air Stream convertable coupe at a car show in Bishop California.

Remember..... the Chrysler Air Stream line was a six cylinder car and used the same basic body as the Dodge/Plymouth. The Chrysler had been restored and upgraded to a very high level with all late model power and running gear. The steering wheel on the car was a banjo type wheel with a Chrysler emblem on the horn button. The owner of the car was very vague about the steering wheel, trying to elude that it was an original '36 wheel which I knew it was not.

I resumed my quest to find a banjo wheel for my car because I figured if the high and mighty Chrysler Air Stream could have one my lowly Plymouth could have one two.  After a lot of checking in catalogs I came upon a wheel that was made by LeCarra, in what they called their Classic Line. In checking with the aftermarket vendors
I found that most of them could not answer my questions about LeCarra's Classic wheels, finally one of them told me I should call LeCarra, which I did.

To make a long storey short... in talking to LaCarra I found that they did make a wheel for my application and that it came in brown leather wrap, the down side being that they had discontinued the Classic line in favor of the more popular Ford style.... The customer service person I was talking to told me they had a few instock and she would check stock for me.... she came back on the line telling me they had several red, a few black and one brown leather wrap.....the gods were smiling on me...  I was able to purchase the wheel directly from LeCarra, thereby insuring that it did not get sold out from under me if I went through a vendor.

Now the good part..... I checked the size of the horn button from the '39 banjo.... it was to large for my new wheel.....gloom sets in... then while parting out a '39 sedan I had purchased, which had the standard steering wheel, I noted that the horn buttom on the standard wheel was much smaller than the banjo type wheel. Some measuring showed that with a little resizing it would be possible to fit the standard button cap onto the new wheel.

I finished the task of resizing the button cap to fit the LeCarra horn cap yeaterday, repainted the horn button and attached it to the LeCarra horn buttonl, installing the whole assembly onto the wheel......it looks great 8)  now I can sit back and let people think that the steering wheel is an original Plymouth steering wheel with the proper emblem in the center of the wheel... just like the guy with the Chrysler Air Stream....Bill

The following is a llittle storey about an unusual thing that happened to me several years ago.

I have been a member of  the Early Ford V-8  Club of America for almost  thirty years. I have a '36 Ford coupe which I have owned for fifty four years. While reading through the ad's in the EFV-8C Times, the equivilant of the POC Bulliten, I came upon an ad where-in the person was looking for wind wings for a '36 Ford.. Since I had a pair of wind wings for a Ford that I was not using I contacted the fellow. In a few days he called me and after the usual small talk about our Fords I told him I had a '39 Plymouth conv. coupe.

The man got all excited, telling me that he thought the '39 Plymouth convertables were the coolest car there ever was. He went on to tell me that his aunt had had one when he was a kid and that she would load him an his sister up in the rumble seat and take them to play tennis when he lived on Long Island, New York.
Now the storey really gets good...... As he told me... she was a professional model and did a lot of photo work for advertizing agentcies that did  ad's for the car manufactures.  She had bought her '39 Plymouth conv because of a photo shoot she did for the car. He went on to tell me that he had a black and white 8 x 10 picture hanging in his garage that was from one of her photo shoots.  Needless to say I told him I would like to have the picture, he agreed to send me the picture which I could have reproduced and return to him.

When I received the picture I about wet my pants.... the picture was a black & white 8 x 10 glossy with a very attactive lady that is the same as the color ad's of the '39 Plymouth conv. coupes which were taken at a tennis court in what appears to be Florida, palm trees in the background behind the tennis courts. I had the picture duplicated and returned the original to him.

Further discussions with him revealed that the car eventually was parked in his dad's driveway for many years. While he was away at college in the early nineteen fifties his dad called him, telling him that he was sick and tired of the thing sitting in his driveway so he was going to have it hauled away. In retro speck he is now sorry that he did not make some effort to find a secure place for the car, had his dad been willing to hang onto the car for a few more years he would have been able to have had the car stored in a safe place until he could get it restored.

Oh Ya...... I sent him the wind wings for his '36 Ford, he did not like the style of them so he returned them to me.... There are about three different versions of the Ford wind wings because they were not standard equipment on Fords, they were all after market accessory's....Bill 

A fellow named Bruce, that lives in Australia,  resently contacted me via snail mail as a result of my posting here on the POC DB concerning the amonalies of the wind wings for the '37/41 convertables.  Bruce has a '40 Chrysler Conv. coupe which he purchased in Los Angeles, CA several years ago and then imported it to Australia. His car is missing the wind wings, so he is looking for a pair.

I relayed to Bruce the information I had pertaining to the '37/41 Plymouth wind wings, ie; that all '37/39 used the same WW, and that the '40 Plymouth WW was different from the '39's,  (some people think they are the same). I also informed Bruce that the WW's on the '40 Plymouths changed after body number 1401, thereby being the same WW as a '41 Plymouth.

I told Bruce that I did not know if the WW's for a '40/41 Chrysler were the same as the Plymouths, I did know that all of the convertable DPCD's from '37/39 used the same WW. I also told Bruce that I had read in several publications that Chrysler standardized their bodies starting in 1936, using the same basic body shell in the intire Chrysler line, with the exception of the Air Flow.  During the eleven years that I have been working on my '39 Plym I have encountered a few owners of '36/39 Chrysler convertables, when I mention that the Plym and Chrysler are the same basic car, the Chrysler owners get very indignant. HEAVEN FORBID THAT I WOULD INSINUATE THAT THE LOWLY PLYMOUTH WAS IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS A CHRYSLER.  ;D

It turns out that Bruce's  father was a DPCD dealer in New South Wales for many years and that Bruce had in his possession old Chrysler parts books. I supplied Bruce with the part numbers for the '40/41 Plym WW, he looked the numbers up in his Chrysler books, they turned out to be the same even down to the change at body number 1401. I guess that would pretty well clintch the fact that the Plymouth and Chrysler convertables are the same basic car with the Chrysler just having a little more "FROSTING"  ;D

In my quest to secure wind wings for my Plym I had been told that the '39's and "40's used the same wind wing so I had purchased some parts that turned out to be for a '40/41. I have offered the parts to Bruce, maybe we can help finish his car.... Bill

For some reason or another I have been unable to post a picture of my rear shackles. I will be glad to email a picture (s) to anyone that might be interested on how we solved the  problem of the shackles hitting the rear frame cross member....Bill

Quote from: chetbrz on March 12, 2007, 02:33:02 PM
Anyway you could post a picture.

Chet...

Chet,
Attached you will find a couple of pictures of the "C" shaped shackles we made for the rear of my 39 Plym....Bill

Go... Thank you for your kind words
I think the wood graining adds a degree of class to the car, it looks a lot better than the original interior colors that Chrysler used in the open cars. The original color of my dash and sills was a wine red color with black exterior.

I made the mirror mounts out of sheet aluminum which I formed to be the exact size of the wind wing stanchions. I was able to use the original WW bolt holes and a rubber gasket under the mount that was intended for the WW's. In my earlier posts here on the POC Board I believe I have mentioned the problems I have had in locating a set of wind wings for my car which prompted me to come up with a solution to two problems..... how to cover up the holes in the doors and how to attach rear view mirrors. I now have three sets of wind wings, however I like the look of my mirror mounts so well I am not to sure if I will use the wind wings.

For those of you that are not firmilar with the 37 to 41 convertables.... the wind wings are not built into the door like the closed cars. The wind wings are a large cast stanchion that is seperate from the window, overlaying the door glass. With the door glass in the up position the wind wing can not be moved, only when the window is fully lowered can the wind wing be moved.

I have a picture of my car that was taken in 1951 or 1952 , the picture shows Appleton spot lights on the car. Portions of the spot lights were still on the car when I got it. I am not really much of a spot or fog light person but I felt since the car had them when it was new I should keep them. I was able to pick up a matched pair, of near perfect,  left and right  correct Appleton spots and a pair of fogs so I am going to use them. I have not installed the spots yet because I am waiting until everything is done on the car, inclunding the last touch up of the paint....Bill 

Bill, Your wood grain came out very nicely!
As it never rains in southern CA,  You don?t fear water unter the mirror mounts and into the searchlight holes?
Beautyful! Greetings! Go

It worked, that is the pictures, now for one more test.The wood grained dash Jim B. took me to task for a few months ago....Bill

Ok..... I guess I am not to smart.....no pitures ???  I guess I will give it another try.
Lets see now..... Additional Options......Browse..... Post

As a trial run to posting a picture of the new shackles on my car I have (hopefully) attached a picture of the mirror mounts I made and a shot of the wood grained dash. 

Chet,
I have never tried to post a picture to the Forum, I can't see any reason why I should not be able to. I will take a couple of pic's of the set up and give it a try....Bill

Anyway you could post a picture.

Chet...

On Thursday we corrected a rear suspension problem that we created when we upgraded the rear springs to Posies Super Slides.  Why did I change the rear springs from the originals to Posies Super Slides ?... Simple... since the springs I had were the original springs we felt they had out lived their usefullness so new springs were in order. Having had experience with Posies and the superior ride they have along with a lower profile without using lower blocks, I felt they would be a good fit.

The problem with the rear suspension was created because we had to eliminate the Mopar "U" shaped shackles at the rear of the spring in favor of the more common flat double shackles. When we installed the body onto the chassis we noted that the inner shackles were in near contact with the rear cross member of the frame. As the body weight  settled, the spring flattened more causing the shackle to come into contact with the cross member. We removed the shackles and ground the inner shackle so it would not interfer with the frame. After a few months of driving the car it was noted that the inner rear shackle was in full contact with the frame so the movement and flex of the spring was being  restricted. 

After a little head scratching we came up with the idea to fabricate up a set of Shackles that are "C" shaped. We made up a card board template, checked the fit then fabricated up a set of shackles using 1/4" steel. The "C" shaped shackles have over 3/4" of travel room before they can come into contact with the cross member.

Was the Posie springs a good choice? I think so.... coupled together with the new front syspension which improved the handling of the car, the Posie springs provide a firm, comfortable and  stable ride..... Bill

I was clearing things off my desk a couple of days ago and came upon the September/October issue of the POC Bulleten which for some reason or another I had not opened.
The picture of the Burkes  '39 Plymouth Conv Coupe on the front cover sure is outstanding. I would imagine that most of the active members  of the POC that have '39 Plym convertables have heard about the Burkes car many times over the years because of the DUAL FENDER MOUNTED SPARES, I know I have.

After viewing the pictures within the Bulletin that shows both sides of the car, it got things sturing within my little head..... remember, I have mentioned before that I have the front fenders for a '39 with the wells, which I have been relucktant to put on my car.  Maybe??.... if I put enough controversional and/or accepted accessories on my car I could enter it in a POC sanctioned meet, then the judges would be so busy arguing about the accessories they would overlook the altered power train.

This very thing happened many years ago with a '36 Ford coupe I have. I am the second owner of the car, I purchased it in 1952 when I was in High School. I promptly turned the car into a street rod with a later powertrain, a '46/48 Merc. 59AB eng/trans and hydraulic brakes. I was going to chop the top and put a LaSalle or a '41 Packard grille into the car which I never did...Amen for that.  After a few years and a little maturity I took the '37 DeSoto bumpers off, replaced the solid hood panels with the stock ones, put '39 drums and stock wheels/hubcaps on the car  and put the V8 emblem back on the hood.

In the late 1970's,  following a lot of prodding by my friends I entered the car in an Early V8 Ford sanctioned meet.  A lot of agruing insued because of the altered powertrain, but when the dust settled my car had won a first place which really caused a lot of heated discussion..... How could this be? Very simple... my Ford still has all of the original glass  with a glass code running from 5/36 to 8/36, the car has only been re-painted once, the original black color, and it still has all of the original upholstery. The clintcher is the accessories, almost every accessory offered by Ford is still on the car. 8)....Bill

Since the 2007 Spring Nationals that the Golden Station Region is sponsoring in Santa Mariia CA are only a short four months away I have geared up to get the upholstery and top finished on my car.

Fortunatley.... inspite of the fact that the car had sat in an open field in Montana for thirty-eight years, all of the parts for the top were still on the car. I am in the process of building a new header panel for the top. The original header was built up of three pieces of oak that were laminated together. Age and the exposure to the eliiments had taken their toll on the glue holding the pieces together, but the screws/bolts holding the corner braces, etc.,  had keep everything in place so I have a pattern of sorts to work from. There was enough of the rear bow on the car to use as a pattern so I sent it off to a company back east that makes steam bent bows.

It seems that everything on my car is so difficult to deal with because of the scarcity of the cars, if my car was a Ford or Chevy I could pick up the phone and order the parts I need for the top from any number of dealers, not so with the lowly Plmyouth. Several years ago I did located in man in the North West that was making header panels for the Plyms. He was making them out of a solid piece of oak which I had my concerns about the quality because of possible warpage over time.  I ordered a header from him, the workmanship was very nice but when I sat the header on the bench it would not lay flat. The header had already started to warp almost a half inch  so I sent it back to the man.

My friend that has the "Alabama" '39 conv is in luck, everytime I encounter a problem with parts for my car, I double the order so George will not have to go threw what I have had to deal with in finding parts....Bill

Just reading old messages and saw your comments on the old Bogart movies.  The '38 Plymouth coupe was used in several movies - and I've mentioned this before - but for the "new" guys - the movie High Sierra with Bogart - watch his car closely.  When he leaves the prison in Indiana its a '37, then part way through the trip to California it becomes a '38 - then back to the '37 again - then to the '38, etc.  Guess the producers figured the cars were so close together that nobody would notice.  And if you want a BRIEF glimpse of a '34 PE woodie wagon, try the Bette Davis movie "Dark Victory".....

Today is the anniversary of my '39 Plym being shipped from the Chrysler Los Angeles plant to a dealer in San Francisco. The car was built on January 28, 1939. Unfortunately the weather today here in So Cal is not the best with rain predicted, so I don't think I will take the Plym out for a sprin around town. With the weather being so wet and cold there won't be any pretty girls out and about anyway. ;D....Bill

Hi Elmo... The contraversity about fender mounted spares (fenderwells) on '39 convertables has, as I understand, been going on for a very long time. It is my understanding that the contraversity regarding the Burkett car has been settled via information supplied by the original dealer. I know of a couple of other '39's that have one fender mounted sparel on the right side, on one car in perticular that is located in Maryland, the fender well was purchased in California from a person restoring a station wagon. The fenderwell fender was fitted to the car when the car was restored about fifteen years ago.

I believe that I have mentioned in one of my earlier posts to this forum that I found the fender wheel fenders I have in Montana, they were not on a car, the fellow that had them had no idea what they had come off of. I think it is of some note that the factory parts book for 1939 lists all of the parts for both right and left fender mounted spares. There is no notation accompanying the parts list that states that the parts are only available for commercial cars, ie; sedan deliveries/station wagons. I also find it note worthy that the cowls and frames for the convertables are prepunched and re-inforced for the fender mounted spares.  This accessory is not some rinky dink affair, it is a very serious heavy duty unit.

I know there are people within the POC community that take exception to any item, accessory ect., on a Plymouth that they consider to be non stock, ie: not listed on a build sheet, yet the fact remains that money talks, especially in a soft economy like 1939 was.  I have talked to people that was in the car business in 1939 and have been told they would do anything, for a price, to sell a car, which as I have been told is the case with the Burkett car. The original owners had a 36' Plym with dual fender mounted spares and would not buy a '39 unless it was equipped in the same manner.

So the question is ????  If the parts/accessories were dealer installed are they correct ?.... where-as  if they were installed by someone else at a later date are they not correct?  I think the fact of the matter is that if a person had to produce a factory build sheet in order to have his car judged, the majorty of the cars that exist today would not be eligible for judging.

Hmmmm... It just dawned on me.... I found my car in Montana and found the fenderwell fenders just forty miles from where I found the car, since the front fenders had been removed from my car..... maybe the fenders I found were from my car? ;D  ....Bill

Conv. Coupe window frames:

Now that I finally have the repair work done on my window frames, (repairs to the stainless & straightening of one frame) I can move on with the rest of the work that the window frames needed prior to installing the glass.

The window frames on the conv's are just like the rest of the car, nothing is simple. The frames have four sets of small "roller bearings" that are set into the frames, these "rollers" are about 1/2" wide, 1/4" thick and are made out of bronze, the axel for the bearings is small steel balls that rest into a dimple on each side of the roller, this roller & axel's fit into a steel cage that is secured into the window frame, top and bottom, four rollers to a side........... bear with me here............ this whole thing gets more complicated.

There are two window guide channels in each door, front and rear which the window frames run up and down in. These guide channels are not just  U shaped afairs, they have movable, spring loaded sides that are held in place by a series of small 1/4" springs, then there is 1/8" x 1/4" felt strips incerted into the edge of the U channels as an anti-rattle feature.........I hope I have not lost any of you with this dribble.........

Now the good part......... because there is no mention in any of the Chrysler manuals that I could find about this window system, no maintenance (lubrication) was ever done to this system other than  the original lubrication which was done at the time of assembly.  Needless to say, most of the axel dipples in the bronze rollers were badly worn which in some cases had caused the roller to fall out of their retainer cage. On top of this the glass man that was supposed to install the new glass in the frames thought the system was junk, so he wanted to discard everything in favor of a more modern U channel with the fuzy whiskers and/or sponge rubber imbedded into the U channel..........wrong!!!!!!

You must remember, it is my intent to RESTORE MY CAR to a level that is consistant, or better, to what Chrysler built in 1939.

I looked through all of my catalogs and found that Restoration Specialty's had the felt for the channels, next came the problem of badly worn and/or missing rolllers and the axel's. The axel balls were simple, I went to a bike shop and purchased ball bearings that had balls simular in size to what I needed.  Now came the problem of the bronze rollers.......... I found some bronze bar stock and had a friend of mine that is a machinest make me up four rollers to replace the missing ones. I then purchased some silver soldier, soldiered up the dimples and redrilled them to match the size of the steel balls. I then applied a liberal amount of white lithium grease into the dipples incerted the balls and reinstalled the whole afair into the window frames.

Upon giving the U channels a good cleaning I found that none of the tension springs were broken, the application of liberal amounts oil got everything free and working as good as new.   

Believe me, it would have been easier to have let the glassman discard all of the original window channels/frames, going to a frameless window like the newer convertables have, however, I have had cars with this type of window system and they leave much to be desired, half the time the door won't close properly if the window is up because it runs into interferance with the sponge rubber, and if you close the door with the window partly down it sounds like the whole afair is going to fall apart.

I am of the mind set that if it was good enough for Walter P. and it has worked for 66 years why change it? ....... OK go ahead and say it............ why did I upgrade the power train to the level I did?..........Safety and reliablity.

The next step will be to install the windows/channels and power operators into the doors, which I hope will be a piece of cake....Bill