Plymouth Owners Club

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Wm Steed on November 20, 2005, 01:49:50 PM

Title: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 20, 2005, 01:49:50 PM
Since our Forum crashed I figured I had better restart my Conv. Coupe thread......

Not much has happened with the car during the past two months, I waited for 5 months for a shop to repair my window frames and install the new green tinted glass. (I used light green glass because I wanted it to look like the original glass that had turned  a greenish color from age.) After five months they still did not have them done so I took them to another shop, where-in they sat for 2 more months without being completed. I took them out of that shop on Thursday and took them to another shop that said they would have them fixed by next Wednesday.

The problem with the windows is that from over the years of use, something on the metal part of the top assy rubbed on the stainless steel window frame causeing the frame  (s) to get a hole worn into the s/s covers on the frame. Another problem was that someone had repaired the left frame, when they took the frame apart they lost some of the  small rollers that Chrysler used in these frames. There is also a tensioning rod that attach's from one side of the frame to the other. It appears as if this rod was used to keep tension on the frame and therefore keep it from flexing which would cause it to bend.  The left window frame without the tension rod had kinked/bent where-as the right frame with the tension rod was still straight.

I also waited five months for a shop to build up power operators for my windows, YES I SAID POWER WINDOWS. After waiting five months they still  had not made much headway....... I guess there is a lot to be said for working on BELLY BUTTOM CARS, ya know... Chevies/Fords in lieu of the rare lowly Plym's.....

In September I was  looking  through Street Rodder, I came upon an ad for Nu-Relics wherein they claimed to make power windows, or could make, power windows for any car.  I called them, expecting a siegh  and response that they did not make operators for a 39 Plym, I instead was told that they had made several sets for 36 through 39 Mopars and in fact had the operators in stock for a 39 Conv. Coupe. Needless to say I ordered them, ten days later I received them via UPS, cost...... $430.+ s/h complete with the wiring, switchs and ferrels for the doors/jambs.

Now if I can get the window frames fixed I can get the windows in, adjust the top mechanizum as needed and then get my top on which will allow me to complete the upholstery....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 47myway on November 20, 2005, 10:14:56 PM
Thank you for the post on Nu-Relics. I have a 1940 plymouth convertible coupe. Its 90% complete, however my doors have nothing in them. No glass,frames, or channel. This at least gives me a start as to where to look. When you dont have any thing for a 40 ragtop, finding anything is hard when it comes to window parts.thank you Mike wagnon
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 21, 2005, 12:25:06 PM
Mike,  I have a pair, left/right of the original window operators for a 39. I am not to sure as to if they will fit a 40 conv. but they might. I have been told that there is a lot of simularity between the early 40's and the 39's.  I also have a pair of wind wings for a '40/41 conv. these wind wings are for the  late '40 & 41 conv's. There is a diffenance between '40 early and '40 late with the change being after a certain serial number.  I resently was told that the window tracks for a Ford conv. and a Plym conv. are very close to being the same, this would make sense because the Plym's had Briggs bodies and as I recall, Ford used a lot of Briggs bodies in the '30's.

While trying to find widow frames for a friend of mines '39 Conv. Coupe I found that the windows for a Nash Metropoliton are very simular, they have the chrome/stainless frames and near the same shape, I have not actually compared them side by side because mine have been tied up in a shop. I have the Metro windows and will actually compare them when I get my frames back, hopefully this week.

Back to the Nu-Relic's operators. I can not speak highly enough about this firm and their products. Their operators are constructed out of all new parts and are a direct replacement for the stock operators.

I find it to be very interesting that with the contorversity surrounding stock/modified, that a company would have window operators on hand for such rare cars as the Plyms conv's, but as the man said, he has done a lot of '36 and later Mopars....Bill

Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 22, 2005, 01:33:04 PM
Is it Correct & Authentic?........

While doing research on my Plym and looking for parts to do the restoration, I came upon pictures showing 39 Plym Conv. Coupes with either single fender mounted spare tires on the right side and/or left/right dual spares. Fender mounted spare tires add a degree of class to a car, the majority of the classic cars of the thirty's all had fender mounted spares.

Several years ago I responed to an ad in Hemming's for 39 Plym parts, talking to the man I found to my surprise that he had front fenders for a 39 Plym with the wheel wells, needless to say I bought them sight unseen. Since I have a daughter that lives in Montana, I had her pick them up, then I picked them up from her. To my surprise all of the parts to attach the fenders and wheels were there with the fenders except for one of the cowel braces.

It is generally accepted that fender mounted spares are only correct for the Sedan Delivery's and  Suburban's...... But then again.... is this fact, or is it just someones opion?  The Chrysler Corp. Plymouth Passenger Car Parts List dated February 20 1939, Group 12-B Fenders---Front, clearly lists  left/right fenders w/fenderwells (#846995/#846994)  for the P7 & P8, these same part numbers are shown for the Sedan Delivery & Suburban.

While doing the restoration on the body of my car, we found that the cowel is punched and re-enforced on both the left/right sides for the  wheel well support brackets, the only modification required is the drilling of a hole through the outer panel of the cowel. I guess the question could be raised......  was the cowel re-enforced because the cowel for the convertables was also used on the suburbans?....., or was it done to make it easier for the dealers to ad this very desirable accessory?
 
I have been messing around with "old cars" for almost 55 years.....,  cars of the 30's/40's are not old to me, all of my relatives were still driving them up through the late 50's. My first car was a 40 Chevy, that was in 1948.  I sometimes have a problem when someone calls a 72 Whatsamaycallit an old car, that's  new to me.

I think the point that most people miss is that the good ole days were not so good. Money was tight during the 1930's, the auto industry was still in it's infancy. To keep the cost's down, so they could be more competitive, cars were priced without bumpers, spare tiires, radios, heaters, sun visors, etc,  and up through 1937/38 dual tail lights except on delux models. I worked in new car prep in a Ford agency in 1949/50 and a friend of mine worked for the Chevy dealer. We installed the majority of the heaters, radio's, delux steering wheels, hood ornaments and hub caps/wheel trim rings. All of the cars came in stripped because the dealers did not want to pay frieght on the accessories and they had a better chance to sell a stripped car.

Have I put the fenderwell fenders on my car?.... not yet.... am I going to?  I don't know, my wife wants me to, she thinks they are neat. I have seen a 36 Chrysler Airstream Conv coupe with dual spares, it looked great, but then again I really like the clean lines of my fat fendered Plym....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 26, 2005, 12:22:38 PM
In an earlier posting to this topic I mentioned the problems I have been having getting my window frames repaired: ie.. wear damage to the stainless steel finish and the removal of a very bad kink from  one of the frames.

The fellow I took them to.... The Metal Miester...... told me that he would try to have them done for me on Wednesday the 23rd, he called me on the 22nd., telling me they were done. The work is first class.......... While talking to him, and looking at some of his pictures of work that he has done, I think this fellow can make just about anything out of metal....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 30, 2005, 01:06:19 PM
BUILD CARDS: ........

Someone resently made a posting to the POC Forum  regarding the availibility of Build Cards for the cars of the 30's, etc.. As a result of this tip I contacted  WPC Historical, by mail and phone, I supplied them with the serial number  for my car. I was contacted by phone in a few days by a very nice lady and then a nice man, he had looked up the serial number of my car and found the build card on micro film for my car, he gave me a quick rundown on what the card said, ie: date of manufacture, dealer shipped to and all of the original equipment.  I was then mailed an order form to secure a copy of the build card, cost $45.00, along with black-white copies of all the litrature Chrysler has on the 39 Plym's which included photo's, repair manuals, owners manuals and sales brochures. The packet contained an order form for copies of the photo's also.

I have sent in the $45.00 for a copy of the build card along with some extra money for copies of some of the photo's, etc. that are relative to the Conv. Coupes.

As a foot note......... According to the info sent to me, Chrysler has the build cards/sheets available for all Chrysler products from 1930/67, info for trucks/commercials is limited. You must request their order forms to which you have to attach a copy of the serial number, either a "rubbing" or a copy of the vehicle registration....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on December 10, 2005, 11:30:49 AM
Conv. Coupe window frames:

Now that I finally have the repair work done on my window frames, (repairs to the stainless & straightening of one frame) I can move on with the rest of the work that the window frames needed prior to installing the glass.

The window frames on the conv's are just like the rest of the car, nothing is simple. The frames have four sets of small "roller bearings" that are set into the frames, these "rollers" are about 1/2" wide, 1/4" thick and are made out of bronze, the axel for the bearings is small steel balls that rest into a dimple on each side of the roller, this roller & axel's fit into a steel cage that is secured into the window frame, top and bottom, four rollers to a side........... bear with me here............ this whole thing gets more complicated.

There are two window guide channels in each door, front and rear which the window frames run up and down in. These guide channels are not just  U shaped afairs, they have movable, spring loaded sides that are held in place by a series of small 1/4" springs, then there is 1/8" x 1/4" felt strips incerted into the edge of the U channels as an anti-rattle feature.........I hope I have not lost any of you with this dribble.........

Now the good part......... because there is no mention in any of the Chrysler manuals that I could find about this window system, no maintenance (lubrication) was ever done to this system other than  the original lubrication which was done at the time of assembly.  Needless to say, most of the axel dipples in the bronze rollers were badly worn which in some cases had caused the roller to fall out of their retainer cage. On top of this the glass man that was supposed to install the new glass in the frames thought the system was junk, so he wanted to discard everything in favor of a more modern U channel with the fuzy whiskers and/or sponge rubber imbedded into the U channel..........wrong!!!!!!

You must remember, it is my intent to RESTORE MY CAR to a level that is consistant, or better, to what Chrysler built in 1939.

I looked through all of my catalogs and found that Restoration Specialty's had the felt for the channels, next came the problem of badly worn and/or missing rolllers and the axel's. The axel balls were simple, I went to a bike shop and purchased ball bearings that had balls simular in size to what I needed.  Now came the problem of the bronze rollers.......... I found some bronze bar stock and had a friend of mine that is a machinest make me up four rollers to replace the missing ones. I then purchased some silver soldier, soldiered up the dimples and redrilled them to match the size of the steel balls. I then applied a liberal amount of white lithium grease into the dipples incerted the balls and reinstalled the whole afair into the window frames.

Upon giving the U channels a good cleaning I found that none of the tension springs were broken, the application of liberal amounts oil got everything free and working as good as new.   

Believe me, it would have been easier to have let the glassman discard all of the original window channels/frames, going to a frameless window like the newer convertables have, however, I have had cars with this type of window system and they leave much to be desired, half the time the door won't close properly if the window is up because it runs into interferance with the sponge rubber, and if you close the door with the window partly down it sounds like the whole afair is going to fall apart.

I am of the mind set that if it was good enough for Walter P. and it has worked for 66 years why change it? ....... OK go ahead and say it............ why did I upgrade the power train to the level I did?..........Safety and reliablity.

The next step will be to install the windows/channels and power operators into the doors, which I hope will be a piece of cake....Bill

(http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/upload/39Plym-1.jpg)

(http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/upload/39Plym-2.jpg)

(http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/upload/39Plym-3.jpg)
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 02, 2007, 02:11:12 PM
Hi Elmo... The contraversity about fender mounted spares (fenderwells) on '39 convertables has, as I understand, been going on for a very long time. It is my understanding that the contraversity regarding the Burkett car has been settled via information supplied by the original dealer. I know of a couple of other '39's that have one fender mounted sparel on the right side, on one car in perticular that is located in Maryland, the fender well was purchased in California from a person restoring a station wagon. The fenderwell fender was fitted to the car when the car was restored about fifteen years ago.

I believe that I have mentioned in one of my earlier posts to this forum that I found the fender wheel fenders I have in Montana, they were not on a car, the fellow that had them had no idea what they had come off of. I think it is of some note that the factory parts book for 1939 lists all of the parts for both right and left fender mounted spares. There is no notation accompanying the parts list that states that the parts are only available for commercial cars, ie; sedan deliveries/station wagons. I also find it note worthy that the cowls and frames for the convertables are prepunched and re-inforced for the fender mounted spares.  This accessory is not some rinky dink affair, it is a very serious heavy duty unit.

I know there are people within the POC community that take exception to any item, accessory ect., on a Plymouth that they consider to be non stock, ie: not listed on a build sheet, yet the fact remains that money talks, especially in a soft economy like 1939 was.  I have talked to people that was in the car business in 1939 and have been told they would do anything, for a price, to sell a car, which as I have been told is the case with the Burkett car. The original owners had a 36' Plym with dual fender mounted spares and would not buy a '39 unless it was equipped in the same manner.

So the question is ????  If the parts/accessories were dealer installed are they correct ?.... where-as  if they were installed by someone else at a later date are they not correct?  I think the fact of the matter is that if a person had to produce a factory build sheet in order to have his car judged, the majorty of the cars that exist today would not be eligible for judging.

Hmmmm... It just dawned on me.... I found my car in Montana and found the fenderwell fenders just forty miles from where I found the car, since the front fenders had been removed from my car..... maybe the fenders I found were from my car? ;D  ....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 29, 2007, 02:29:59 PM
Today is the anniversary of my '39 Plym being shipped from the Chrysler Los Angeles plant to a dealer in San Francisco. The car was built on January 28, 1939. Unfortunately the weather today here in So Cal is not the best with rain predicted, so I don't think I will take the Plym out for a sprin around town. With the weather being so wet and cold there won't be any pretty girls out and about anyway. ;D....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Jim Benjaminson on January 29, 2007, 05:07:42 PM
Just reading old messages and saw your comments on the old Bogart movies.  The '38 Plymouth coupe was used in several movies - and I've mentioned this before - but for the "new" guys - the movie High Sierra with Bogart - watch his car closely.  When he leaves the prison in Indiana its a '37, then part way through the trip to California it becomes a '38 - then back to the '37 again - then to the '38, etc.  Guess the producers figured the cars were so close together that nobody would notice.  And if you want a BRIEF glimpse of a '34 PE woodie wagon, try the Bette Davis movie "Dark Victory".....
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 31, 2007, 12:57:33 PM
Since the 2007 Spring Nationals that the Golden Station Region is sponsoring in Santa Mariia CA are only a short four months away I have geared up to get the upholstery and top finished on my car.

Fortunatley.... inspite of the fact that the car had sat in an open field in Montana for thirty-eight years, all of the parts for the top were still on the car. I am in the process of building a new header panel for the top. The original header was built up of three pieces of oak that were laminated together. Age and the exposure to the eliiments had taken their toll on the glue holding the pieces together, but the screws/bolts holding the corner braces, etc.,  had keep everything in place so I have a pattern of sorts to work from. There was enough of the rear bow on the car to use as a pattern so I sent it off to a company back east that makes steam bent bows.

It seems that everything on my car is so difficult to deal with because of the scarcity of the cars, if my car was a Ford or Chevy I could pick up the phone and order the parts I need for the top from any number of dealers, not so with the lowly Plmyouth. Several years ago I did located in man in the North West that was making header panels for the Plyms. He was making them out of a solid piece of oak which I had my concerns about the quality because of possible warpage over time.  I ordered a header from him, the workmanship was very nice but when I sat the header on the bench it would not lay flat. The header had already started to warp almost a half inch  so I sent it back to the man.

My friend that has the "Alabama" '39 conv is in luck, everytime I encounter a problem with parts for my car, I double the order so George will not have to go threw what I have had to deal with in finding parts....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on February 10, 2007, 12:54:31 PM
I was clearing things off my desk a couple of days ago and came upon the September/October issue of the POC Bulleten which for some reason or another I had not opened.
The picture of the Burkes  '39 Plymouth Conv Coupe on the front cover sure is outstanding. I would imagine that most of the active members  of the POC that have '39 Plym convertables have heard about the Burkes car many times over the years because of the DUAL FENDER MOUNTED SPARES, I know I have.

After viewing the pictures within the Bulletin that shows both sides of the car, it got things sturing within my little head..... remember, I have mentioned before that I have the front fenders for a '39 with the wells, which I have been relucktant to put on my car.  Maybe??.... if I put enough controversional and/or accepted accessories on my car I could enter it in a POC sanctioned meet, then the judges would be so busy arguing about the accessories they would overlook the altered power train.

This very thing happened many years ago with a '36 Ford coupe I have. I am the second owner of the car, I purchased it in 1952 when I was in High School. I promptly turned the car into a street rod with a later powertrain, a '46/48 Merc. 59AB eng/trans and hydraulic brakes. I was going to chop the top and put a LaSalle or a '41 Packard grille into the car which I never did...Amen for that.  After a few years and a little maturity I took the '37 DeSoto bumpers off, replaced the solid hood panels with the stock ones, put '39 drums and stock wheels/hubcaps on the car  and put the V8 emblem back on the hood.

In the late 1970's,  following a lot of prodding by my friends I entered the car in an Early V8 Ford sanctioned meet.  A lot of agruing insued because of the altered powertrain, but when the dust settled my car had won a first place which really caused a lot of heated discussion..... How could this be? Very simple... my Ford still has all of the original glass  with a glass code running from 5/36 to 8/36, the car has only been re-painted once, the original black color, and it still has all of the original upholstery. The clintcher is the accessories, almost every accessory offered by Ford is still on the car. 8)....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 12, 2007, 12:38:48 PM
On Thursday we corrected a rear suspension problem that we created when we upgraded the rear springs to Posies Super Slides.  Why did I change the rear springs from the originals to Posies Super Slides ?... Simple... since the springs I had were the original springs we felt they had out lived their usefullness so new springs were in order. Having had experience with Posies and the superior ride they have along with a lower profile without using lower blocks, I felt they would be a good fit.

The problem with the rear suspension was created because we had to eliminate the Mopar "U" shaped shackles at the rear of the spring in favor of the more common flat double shackles. When we installed the body onto the chassis we noted that the inner shackles were in near contact with the rear cross member of the frame. As the body weight  settled, the spring flattened more causing the shackle to come into contact with the cross member. We removed the shackles and ground the inner shackle so it would not interfer with the frame. After a few months of driving the car it was noted that the inner rear shackle was in full contact with the frame so the movement and flex of the spring was being  restricted. 

After a little head scratching we came up with the idea to fabricate up a set of Shackles that are "C" shaped. We made up a card board template, checked the fit then fabricated up a set of shackles using 1/4" steel. The "C" shaped shackles have over 3/4" of travel room before they can come into contact with the cross member.

Was the Posie springs a good choice? I think so.... coupled together with the new front syspension which improved the handling of the car, the Posie springs provide a firm, comfortable and  stable ride..... Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: chetbrz on March 12, 2007, 02:33:02 PM
Anyway you could post a picture.

Chet...
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 13, 2007, 11:08:25 AM
Chet,
I have never tried to post a picture to the Forum, I can't see any reason why I should not be able to. I will take a couple of pic's of the set up and give it a try....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 13, 2007, 11:24:54 AM
As a trial run to posting a picture of the new shackles on my car I have (hopefully) attached a picture of the mirror mounts I made and a shot of the wood grained dash. 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 13, 2007, 08:34:56 PM
Ok..... I guess I am not to smart.....no pitures ???  I guess I will give it another try.
Lets see now..... Additional Options......Browse..... Post
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 13, 2007, 08:48:45 PM
It worked, that is the pictures, now for one more test.The wood grained dash Jim B. took me to task for a few months ago....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Go Fleiter on March 14, 2007, 01:42:51 AM
Bill, Your wood grain came out very nicely!
As it never rains in southern CA,  You don?t fear water unter the mirror mounts and into the searchlight holes?
Beautyful! Greetings! Go
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 14, 2007, 12:41:44 PM
Go... Thank you for your kind words
I think the wood graining adds a degree of class to the car, it looks a lot better than the original interior colors that Chrysler used in the open cars. The original color of my dash and sills was a wine red color with black exterior.

I made the mirror mounts out of sheet aluminum which I formed to be the exact size of the wind wing stanchions. I was able to use the original WW bolt holes and a rubber gasket under the mount that was intended for the WW's. In my earlier posts here on the POC Board I believe I have mentioned the problems I have had in locating a set of wind wings for my car which prompted me to come up with a solution to two problems..... how to cover up the holes in the doors and how to attach rear view mirrors. I now have three sets of wind wings, however I like the look of my mirror mounts so well I am not to sure if I will use the wind wings.

For those of you that are not firmilar with the 37 to 41 convertables.... the wind wings are not built into the door like the closed cars. The wind wings are a large cast stanchion that is seperate from the window, overlaying the door glass. With the door glass in the up position the wind wing can not be moved, only when the window is fully lowered can the wind wing be moved.

I have a picture of my car that was taken in 1951 or 1952 , the picture shows Appleton spot lights on the car. Portions of the spot lights were still on the car when I got it. I am not really much of a spot or fog light person but I felt since the car had them when it was new I should keep them. I was able to pick up a matched pair, of near perfect,  left and right  correct Appleton spots and a pair of fogs so I am going to use them. I have not installed the spots yet because I am waiting until everything is done on the car, inclunding the last touch up of the paint....Bill 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 16, 2007, 01:38:47 AM
Anyway you could post a picture.

Chet...

Chet,
Attached you will find a couple of pictures of the "C" shaped shackles we made for the rear of my 39 Plym....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 19, 2007, 12:07:12 PM
For some reason or another I have been unable to post a picture of my rear shackles. I will be glad to email a picture (s) to anyone that might be interested on how we solved the  problem of the shackles hitting the rear frame cross member....Bill

Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 30, 2007, 12:44:31 PM
A fellow named Bruce, that lives in Australia,  resently contacted me via snail mail as a result of my posting here on the POC DB concerning the amonalies of the wind wings for the '37/41 convertables.  Bruce has a '40 Chrysler Conv. coupe which he purchased in Los Angeles, CA several years ago and then imported it to Australia. His car is missing the wind wings, so he is looking for a pair.

I relayed to Bruce the information I had pertaining to the '37/41 Plymouth wind wings, ie; that all '37/39 used the same WW, and that the '40 Plymouth WW was different from the '39's,  (some people think they are the same). I also informed Bruce that the WW's on the '40 Plymouths changed after body number 1401, thereby being the same WW as a '41 Plymouth.

I told Bruce that I did not know if the WW's for a '40/41 Chrysler were the same as the Plymouths, I did know that all of the convertable DPCD's from '37/39 used the same WW. I also told Bruce that I had read in several publications that Chrysler standardized their bodies starting in 1936, using the same basic body shell in the intire Chrysler line, with the exception of the Air Flow.  During the eleven years that I have been working on my '39 Plym I have encountered a few owners of '36/39 Chrysler convertables, when I mention that the Plym and Chrysler are the same basic car, the Chrysler owners get very indignant. HEAVEN FORBID THAT I WOULD INSINUATE THAT THE LOWLY PLYMOUTH WAS IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS A CHRYSLER.  ;D

It turns out that Bruce's  father was a DPCD dealer in New South Wales for many years and that Bruce had in his possession old Chrysler parts books. I supplied Bruce with the part numbers for the '40/41 Plym WW, he looked the numbers up in his Chrysler books, they turned out to be the same even down to the change at body number 1401. I guess that would pretty well clintch the fact that the Plymouth and Chrysler convertables are the same basic car with the Chrysler just having a little more "FROSTING"  ;D

In my quest to secure wind wings for my Plym I had been told that the '39's and "40's used the same wind wing so I had purchased some parts that turned out to be for a '40/41. I have offered the parts to Bruce, maybe we can help finish his car.... Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on April 12, 2007, 12:52:16 PM
The following is a llittle storey about an unusual thing that happened to me several years ago.

I have been a member of  the Early Ford V-8  Club of America for almost  thirty years. I have a '36 Ford coupe which I have owned for fifty four years. While reading through the ad's in the EFV-8C Times, the equivilant of the POC Bulliten, I came upon an ad where-in the person was looking for wind wings for a '36 Ford.. Since I had a pair of wind wings for a Ford that I was not using I contacted the fellow. In a few days he called me and after the usual small talk about our Fords I told him I had a '39 Plymouth conv. coupe.

The man got all excited, telling me that he thought the '39 Plymouth convertables were the coolest car there ever was. He went on to tell me that his aunt had had one when he was a kid and that she would load him an his sister up in the rumble seat and take them to play tennis when he lived on Long Island, New York.
Now the storey really gets good...... As he told me... she was a professional model and did a lot of photo work for advertizing agentcies that did  ad's for the car manufactures.  She had bought her '39 Plymouth conv because of a photo shoot she did for the car. He went on to tell me that he had a black and white 8 x 10 picture hanging in his garage that was from one of her photo shoots.  Needless to say I told him I would like to have the picture, he agreed to send me the picture which I could have reproduced and return to him.

When I received the picture I about wet my pants.... the picture was a black & white 8 x 10 glossy with a very attactive lady that is the same as the color ad's of the '39 Plymouth conv. coupes which were taken at a tennis court in what appears to be Florida, palm trees in the background behind the tennis courts. I had the picture duplicated and returned the original to him.

Further discussions with him revealed that the car eventually was parked in his dad's driveway for many years. While he was away at college in the early nineteen fifties his dad called him, telling him that he was sick and tired of the thing sitting in his driveway so he was going to have it hauled away. In retro speck he is now sorry that he did not make some effort to find a secure place for the car, had his dad been willing to hang onto the car for a few more years he would have been able to have had the car stored in a safe place until he could get it restored.

Oh Ya...... I sent him the wind wings for his '36 Ford, he did not like the style of them so he returned them to me.... There are about three different versions of the Ford wind wings because they were not standard equipment on Fords, they were all after market accessory's....Bill 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 04, 2007, 12:49:45 PM
I am feeling pretty darn smart today, actually smiling within since yesterday afternoon....

In my quest to keep my '39 Plym as close to original as possible, while at the same time upgrading it to a vehicle that was safer and easy to drive.  One of my many conversions was to converted the car to power steering which required the conversion of the steering column. Converting the steering column to a unit that was compartable with the steering also made the conversion to turn lights and hazard lights easy.  The down side of the conversion ment that the '39 Banjo wheel would not fit onto the new steering column.

In the hope that I could find a replacement wheel that would look good in the car, I looked at most of the after market banjo type wheels that are offered. Most of them left me cold because they either were patterned after the '38/39 Ford style of wheel or they were very cheaply made affairs.  About three years ago I encountered a '36 Chrysler Air Stream convertable coupe at a car show in Bishop California.

Remember..... the Chrysler Air Stream line was a six cylinder car and used the same basic body as the Dodge/Plymouth. The Chrysler had been restored and upgraded to a very high level with all late model power and running gear. The steering wheel on the car was a banjo type wheel with a Chrysler emblem on the horn button. The owner of the car was very vague about the steering wheel, trying to elude that it was an original '36 wheel which I knew it was not.

I resumed my quest to find a banjo wheel for my car because I figured if the high and mighty Chrysler Air Stream could have one my lowly Plymouth could have one two.  After a lot of checking in catalogs I came upon a wheel that was made by LeCarra, in what they called their Classic Line. In checking with the aftermarket vendors
I found that most of them could not answer my questions about LeCarra's Classic wheels, finally one of them told me I should call LeCarra, which I did.

To make a long storey short... in talking to LaCarra I found that they did make a wheel for my application and that it came in brown leather wrap, the down side being that they had discontinued the Classic line in favor of the more popular Ford style.... The customer service person I was talking to told me they had a few instock and she would check stock for me.... she came back on the line telling me they had several red, a few black and one brown leather wrap.....the gods were smiling on me...  I was able to purchase the wheel directly from LeCarra, thereby insuring that it did not get sold out from under me if I went through a vendor.

Now the good part..... I checked the size of the horn button from the '39 banjo.... it was to large for my new wheel.....gloom sets in... then while parting out a '39 sedan I had purchased, which had the standard steering wheel, I noted that the horn buttom on the standard wheel was much smaller than the banjo type wheel. Some measuring showed that with a little resizing it would be possible to fit the standard button cap onto the new wheel.

I finished the task of resizing the button cap to fit the LeCarra horn cap yeaterday, repainted the horn button and attached it to the LeCarra horn buttonl, installing the whole assembly onto the wheel......it looks great 8)  now I can sit back and let people think that the steering wheel is an original Plymouth steering wheel with the proper emblem in the center of the wheel... just like the guy with the Chrysler Air Stream....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 07, 2007, 02:12:08 AM
I guess I should not blow my own horn, especially here on the POC DB, but then again.... what better place.

I took the '39 Plymouth to a car show today. The show was not brand specific, there were stockers and street rods, Cad's, Chevies, Buicks, Fords, (roadster and conv.) and even a '40  Merc  4dr conv.   I entered the car in the '35/40 open car division.
The Plym convertable are so rare that anytime I take it to a car show it is usually mobbed with people looking at it and asking endless questions.  The car show today was no exception.

The Plym faired very well in the judging today, taking a first place in it's division....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Go Fleiter on May 07, 2007, 04:15:23 AM
Congratulations!!
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: chetbrz on May 07, 2007, 11:56:12 AM
Bill..,

Very Cool.., I personally get a great deal of joy watching people who are not in the hobby get excited about seeing a beautiful old car especially if it is mine.?

Cars in Museums are great to look at but cars on the road bring joy to everyone who sees them.?

Great Job and Congratulations,? ?I bet there might be one or two people under 25 who may now be adding your car to their future want list.? Even with all the hotrod Chevys floating around.

Chet??
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 13, 2007, 02:04:13 PM
I had intended to take my Plym to the 07 POC National meet in Santa Maria. I was going to enter it in a special modified class that the Golden State Region of the POC had created for this meet.  The thinking behind the modified class was that a lot of members of the POC have cars that are modified, even if it is just a newer engine or an overdrive.

Unfortunitly for me and my Plym, a sudden death of my good friend and fellow car show mate, Howard,  on Thursday morning altered my plans dramaticly. Since I had been given the job of securing items for the "goody bags" to be passed out to the registered attende's, I made a flying trip up to Santa Maria in my everyday vehicle delivering the goods and returning home.

I guess it is not much of a testiment to the reliability of my Plym, not wanting to make a high speed run of over two hundred miles, paritally in the dark, and I know Howard would be dissapointed in me because he thought so highly of my Plym, but then..... sometimes one must do what has to be done....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Jim Benjaminson on May 13, 2007, 07:36:55 PM
Hi Bill -  Sorry to hear about your friend Howard.  Things like that happen.  Yesterday the wife and I attended a benefit for a former fellow co-worker who was diagnosed with bone cancer.  We got to the benefit to find out he'd passed away about an hour before.....62 years old, 30+ years with the NDHP and several years with CBP.....
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 1939P8 on May 18, 2007, 01:45:11 AM
William:  We both live in California and have 39 plymouths.  You can probably be of great help to me as I am in the middle of restoring a p8 business coupe.  The question I have is what are the stock rim sizes for our cars.  I bought mine and it came with 15" rims, but I think it takes 16" rims originally.  Do you know for sure?  What size do you have on your convertible?  Is there any difference in feel or ride between those rims, or is it just an issue of what was originally with the vehicle?  Your comments would be appreciated.   Gary
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 18, 2007, 12:53:45 PM
Gary,
Your question about tire sizes is some what of a difficult question to answer.
The '39 Plyms were originally equiptd with 16 x 4.5 wheels using a 600x16 bias ply tire. In about 1949 or 1950 Chrysler and the majority of car manufactures went to the 15" wheel.  The early 15" wheels that were used on the Chrysler built vehicles have the spring hub cap clips which are simular to the '39 Plym wheels so they work well on the prewar cars.  If the wheels on your car do not have inside spring clips then you have later model wheels from either a Chrysler built vehicle or a Ford.  The '49 Ford car wheels have the same bolt pattern a Chrysler built vehicles.

The  difference between 15" & 16" wheels is insignificant, the difference is in the availiblity and cost of the tires.. If  you intend to keep your car stock then you are going to be limited to 600 x 16 bias ply tube type tires that are pretty spendy ($$$$)  You will also find that with stock bias ply tires your car will drive like a lumber wagon which is fine if you only intend to drive the car in parades and llimited hiway driving. Tubeless 15" tires will give you a better ride, but your car will still drive like a lumber wagon when compared to a modern car. 

Many of the prewar/postwar cars that are driven a lot by the owners have been switched to radial tires, usually in a 15" size. Why 15"? ... because they are availible off the shelf at most tire dealers at reasonable prices..  As a result of a vast majority of newer vehicles having 16" wheels, 16" radials are more common, however, these tires are not usually a good idea on older wheels because of the rim width. Most modern wheels have a rim width of 6.5"/7." or wider. The early wheels with 4.5 rims pinch the side walls in causing poor tread contact to the road.

Another factor to keep in mind when selecting tires is the overall diameter of the tires.  A 600 x 16 tire is generally 27.5" tall,  smaller tires will effect the overall gear ratior which is quite low at 3.9.  The majority of the prewar cars that are driven any distance on the open road have been modified with overdrives.

I have P205R60-15 tires on my car with 15x7 rims, my gear ratio is 3.23 with an overdrive trans.

As a result of my eleven year project to rebuild my '39, I have aquired a large stock of parts, wheels, gauges, trim, radio's, etc., if I can help you with any parts please contact me....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 1939P8 on May 19, 2007, 02:19:17 AM
Thanks Bill - the information was very helpful.  I hope it does not take me 11 years to finish.  I have been at it about 4 years now, but expect to be done in about a year.  I will probably stay with the 15" wheels.  On tires, I have heard to stay away from radials - do you agree and since so many of the new tires are radial, is the size you mentioned not radial?  Also, there are a few parts I am looking for - hinges for the back trunk, a few stainless steel pieces for the front grill, radio, tail light buckets and a few knobs for the dash.  I have access to a 39 Chrysler for spare parts also and have some extra parts that include a front and rear bumper, transmission (floor shift) master brake cylinder, generator, drive line and some door handles.  I do have most of the original glass from my windows also as I have had new safety glass cut for it when I finish the interior and painting.  Thanks again for the information.  Gary
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 19, 2007, 01:32:08 PM
Gary,
There is absolutly no reason to NOT use radials on your car. There are a few adjustments that you will have to make on your front end alignment but that is not a big deal.
A P225/75R15 tire is the same size as a 600x16 , the P225 is a little wider than the 600x16 but should not pose a problem if you have a 6" wheel with a back set of about 4.5 inches.

The problem with tires, bias ply vs radial, is that to many people have their mind made up against the radial tires thinking that the radials are only proper on newer cars. The same is true with the controversial issue of detergent, non-detergent oil in older engines. I have used nothing but radial tires on every vehicle I have owned since the early 1970's.

It has taken me eleven years to get my car to the point that it is, about 95% done, because of the rarity of the convertables and the suit case full of money the restoration has cost. As I have reported earlier here on the forum, there are two other factors that governed the time line.... the car had been customized in the late 1940's, all of the stainless/chrome trim removed and the holes for same welded up.  To add to my problems the car had sat in an open field in Montana for thirty-eight years. When the car was parked in 1958, it was just another old worn out car.

In your posting to the forum you mentioned that you needed some stainless pieces for your grille. I have two complete sets plus some spare pieces which I will not need for my car. I also have a very nice spare radio and a very nice hood ornament. Actually, as I stated in my earlier posting,  I have a lot of body parts for the '39 Plyms....Bill   
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 1939P8 on May 21, 2007, 08:20:47 PM
What city are you located in.  I travel around the state for work at times and might like to look at some of the spare parts and offer to buy them?  As indicated before, I am in Fresno.  I understand what you say about radials.  When radials first came out, the side walls were not what they are now.  There have been a lot of improvements on radial tires over the past 30 years that I can recall.  While I am thinking of it, I have a spare tire holder that will hold the tire behind the driver's seat, but the threaded nut or wing nut device to hold the tire in place did not come with the car when I found it.  Got one of those or know where I can get one.  Let me know what other parts you have available and maybe it would be worth the time to come and look at them.  Gary
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 22, 2007, 01:36:18 PM
Gary'
I am located in Ventura............
I actually have  a large stock of body parts, including two complete sets of wheels, front/rear bumpers w/guards, including a complete very hard to find original equipment grille guard, two sets of front fenders and two grille shells. I also have a lot of lighting stuff, head/tail lights.  I have two complete sets of tail lights, NOS in the boxes, including the lower buckets. I have a spare tire mounting bracket w/bolt for a coupe, but I don't think I have the wing nut.
Now that I am about finished with the restoration of my Plym I am going to start selling off the excess parts I have....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 1939P8 on May 23, 2007, 01:28:47 AM
Bill:  I am definitely interested in the tail lights.  Do you have a suggested retail price for me to consider?  I think I will look for a chance to travel down to your area as I would definitely like to look over the parts you have before they are gone.  Do you, by any chance have any of those long horns that are shaped like trumpets for that model?  Gary
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 23, 2007, 05:52:40 PM
Hi Gary,
I think that you possibly have had a lapse of memory.
In January of 2004 and again in April 2004 we  had almost the same dialog about your need for tail lights, spare tire mount, grille stainless trim and a hood hinge center  At the time I quoted you prices for the parts and gave you my phone number. After our last exchange of emails on 4/13/04 I heard nothing more from you until your recent postings to the forum.

I sold the outer tail light buckets that I offered to you for $125. each to a fellow in Canada early last year. As I mentioned in my resent posting to the forum, I still have the NOS boxed sets of tail light assy  which I offered to you in 2004.  As things have turned out, I am not so sure I want to sell the TL's now, they are getting harder to come by and are more pricey. I have seen the TL assy. go for $375 + each, with out the outer bucket, on ebay....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 1939P8 on May 23, 2007, 08:50:38 PM
You are right, I had forgotten that it was you that had offered those to me before.  I was off the discussion board for about a year and lost track of that.  Also, I was hoping to find something for less.  If I recall, after hearing your price I tried to fabricate the tail light buckets but they did not come out too well.  I have all the parts in good condition but for the rusted buckets.  So thank you for the response.   I will probably kick my self for not responding to your offer back then.   Gary
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 24, 2007, 11:45:39 AM
I have been rebuilding and/or messing with cars since I was fourteen and learned at a very early age... that when it comes to desirable cars or parts, if you snooze you loose.  We all have the urge to save money, and I am no exception. When I first started looking for wind wings for my '39 Plym, in about 1998, I could have purchased a brand new pair for $450. by the time I made up my mind to step up to the plate and buy the WW's in 2005 the price had ratched up to $1,200 a pair. By the time I had digested the bitter pill of $1,200, the fellow that was making them ceased to fabricate the '37-41 WW's because of an inability to get a foundry to cast the brass stanchions. I have since solved the problem but at a much greater price that the $450 it would have cost me in 1998.

The false economy of trying to save money brings to mind a little story:

Adam is in the Garden of Eden lamenting that there was nothing to do. A big booming voice from above asks.... what are you doing Adam?  Adam responds... nothing God.... there is nothing to do here.  God responds... I guess I should have created two of you so that you would have company. God thinks for a few minutes, then tells Adam.... I am going to create a help-mate for you. The help-mate will respond to your every comand, cooking and cleaning your house for you, she will also be a companion to you, taking care of your personal needs.... God says I will call this person Women. Adam asks what are my personal needs? God responds you will find out about this when she gets here.

Adam thinks for a few minutes, then asks God.... what will this person cost me? God responds.... an arm and a leg.... Adam replys... can't I get something a little cheaper?....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 31, 2007, 01:04:38 PM
WOW!!!!  The "visiters" to this topic hit 3000, twice as many as any other topic on the forum. 
I don't know if the high readership is a result of my superior knowledge of the '39 Plym conv's, or if it's a matter of people wondering what kind of nonsense I am going to babble about.  ;D

It has been suggested to me by Jim B. that I write and article that would be published in the POC Bulliten about the wind wings for the '37/41 Plym conv's.
I have a lot of information and pictures of the WW's except for good close up pictures of an early '40 conv. with a body number prior to 1401.  I have been told by a fellow that has the  Chrysler parts books to back it up, that the all of the DPCD convertiibles used the same basic body shell so the 1401 body number could apply to the Dodge, Chrysler and DeSoto conv's....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 1939P8 on June 05, 2007, 01:50:01 AM
Bill, I have a better idea.  I have been waiting for ages for the bulletin to do a special edition on the 39 plymouth again.  I can't think of anyone who would be better to write such an article.  I keep reading about other plymouths, but its time to revisit the 39 again.  Gary
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on June 05, 2007, 12:30:58 PM
AH Shucks!.... Gary, you are to kind.
There is no two ways about it, the '39 Plym's are without  a doubt the best looking vehicle in the entire Chrysler line for 1939. The placement of the rectangular head lights in the horizonal position in lieu of verticle like the rest of the Chrysler line was a pure stroke of genius. Think about it....  rectangular head lights were not used again until Ford used them on the 1978 trucks.

I have to admit that I am not to fond of the '39 sedans and the tops on the coupes are a little small, a couple more inches in the quarter window area would have improved the look, but when it comes to the convertible coupes, I tend to be very bias in my thinking that there is nothing in the entire industry for 1939 that can come close to the style the Plym's have....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on June 10, 2007, 12:40:16 PM
Resently on ebay there was a listing for '37, 38, 39 Ford Cabrolet side window frames, item #160122451064. The listing ended on 6/5/07 @17:19.
I looked the listing over when it first appeared because I have '37 Ford listed in my ebay favorites. Upon viewing the windows I noted that they appeared to be very simular to the '37/39 DPCD conv. coupe windows.

I wondered?.... could the Ford and DPCD's convertibles use the same side windows? It was possible..... because Briggs was a major supplier of bodies to Ford during the 1930's. I sent a question to the listing party asking for more pictures and measurements on the windows. The listing party responded to my questions with the pic's and measurements. The details shown in the pictures and the measurements showed the windows to be identical to the 37/39 DPCD window frames.

I was interested in the window frames because the Alabama car ('39 conv. coupe) I have written about before, is missing one window frame which we have not been able to come up with yet.

I made the decision for my friend that owns the Alabama car that it was worth a gamble to try and win the window frames, because if it turned out that they would not work in his car, we could always sell them. The bidding started at $400, sitting there for a few days and finally moving up to $542 by late 6/4. The counter showed that there was only six bidders by 6/4, so upon conferring  with my friend I decided to bid $800.+  and just blow everyone away.

I waited until the last minute, actually less than a minute,  and fired my bid in.  I was bidder number 10.... WAM BANG!!... the bidding went to 28 bidders in less than a wink of an eye and I was shot out of the water with the winning bid being $910.  :-[

I guess I learned something out of the whole affair, I need to expand my seach for a window for the '39 Plym to include the Ford/Merc line of convertibles, instead of just looking in the DPCD world .....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on June 26, 2007, 12:16:48 PM
I was taliking to a friend of mine a couple of days ago about our favorite subject.... cars.
Our discussion got around to the simularity I had noted in the windows for the '37/39 DPCD's conv. coupes and the '37/39 Ford conv's.  My friend was aware that Brigg's had made bodies for Ford starting with the Model T's and Model A's, however, he thought that Chrysler had purchased Briggs in the early 1930's, thereby ending Ford's association with Briggs. I told my friend that I was under the believe that Chrysler did not purchase Briggs until sometime in the mid 1950's.

I was sitting at my computer while talking to my friend so I goggled "Briggs".  It turns out that I was pretty well correct, Briggs was purchased by Chrysler in the mid 1950's, if I recall correctly, 1953. The intesting part about the history of Briggs was that they really walked a fine line for many years, designing and building bodies for Chrysler, Ford, Hudson and Packard. In the Briggs history it also noted that by the early 1930's the relationship between Briggs and Ford had deteriated to the point that Briggs was only suppling open car bodies to Ford..... it would appear that the "blood lines" between the DPCD and  Ford conv's is as closely aligned as I thought....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on August 18, 2007, 01:35:38 PM
I was recently given a heads up by one of the POC regulars that another '37-39 Ford Conv coupe side window had been listed on ebay. After the drubbing I took with the 6/5/07 listing for a 37-39 Ford window I was reluctant to bother to bid.. I finally contacted the seller, asking him for more pictures and some clarifications on the measurements of the window.

I had to make up my mind what would be the best course of action. I had located a metal fabracator that had assured me he could make a window frame for us out of stainless steel which would be almost undetectable from the original. The problem was he would not commit to a price quote, only an houry rate. Hmmmmm.?
I finally decided that I would take a run at the window assy on ebay, thinking that if I got it and it would not work on the Plym I could always resell it.

The bidding started out real slow so I just sat back, assuming my best sniper possition. I know that a lot of my friends have progressed from doing their own bidding on ebay, preferring to use one of the bidding services that have emerge. As for me.... I prefer to do my own bidding, I think it takes away from the ebay experance using a third party to do the bidding.

A day before the close of bidding I fired off a bid that made me high bidder, then a few hours before the close of bidding I fired off another bid which in realiity made me a bidder against myself. I then sat back and waited for the clock to run down to the last minute where-in I fired off my final bid. I got the window for what I fell was a fair price, way below the $910 bid on 6/5..

I received the window frame yesterday, it is beautiful.  All of the guide rollers are intack and in good shape and the stainless is near perfect.. The only problem is that the angle that abutts to the windshield is slightly different from the Plym frame, being off by almost an inch at the top. I am going to take the frame to my fabricator and see if he can modify it to fit the Plym, or do I sell it and have him make us a new one?

So the bottom line of this storey is..... The Ford & Plym window frames are near identical, sharing a lot of the same design features and hardware, but they are not interchangeable.....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on August 20, 2007, 11:55:26 AM
CONV WIND WINGS........
I have been asked to write an article about the differances  between the 37/39, early '40, late '40/41 wind wings, as used on the open cars, ie; convertible coupes and the 4 dr conv's sedans of 1939. THE CONV. WIND WINGS DIFFER FROM THE CLOSED CARS IN THAT THE SIDE WINDOW IS ONE PIECE THE LENGTH OF THE DOOR, WHERE AS THE WIND WING IS AN ADD ON AFFAIR, BOLTED TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE DOOR WITH THREE 1/4" BOLTS.

I have all the info I need for the '37/39's and the late '40/41 however I need info and pictures of the wind wings used on the early '40 convertibles, cars built prior to body number 1401. I need to know what the bolts hole spacing is and the length of the "tail" on the stanchion. I also need to know if there is a part number stamped into the back side of the stanchion. To find this number will require the removal of one of the stanchions.

If any of the members of the POC have any early '40 conv. (body num. prior to 1401) that is located in southern California, anywhere from Paso Robles to the LA area I will be glad to stop by your location and take pictures of your car and the wind wings on it.

The object of the article I am trying to put together is to clear up the confusion that exiists about what wind wings fits what.....  When I was looking for wind wings for my '39, I was told by people that had '39's that the wind wings for all '37/40 DPCD's were the same. I purchased any wind wing that came along, in one case I purchased a set from a man that had owned a '39 for many years. He had been told that the WW stanchions were very subject to breakage so he bought an extra set and put them away in case he needed them. He sold the car but forgot to give the new owner the WW's. He put them on ebay and I bought them for a lot of money because of his description and pictures. The WW's turned out to be for a late '40/41.

To date I have over $1,500 invested in WW's and still do not have a set that is usable for my car.   Maybe???..... if I can get the article written and published the confusion about the WW's can be cleared up.....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 04, 2007, 11:51:16 AM
On Monday the 29th I returned  from a trip that took me to Rapid City, SD, Montana, Idaho and Nevada, a distance of 3,200 + miles.
The purpose of my trip to Rapid City was to pick up a '49 Olds that I had purchased there on a trip to Mount Rushmore in July.
As a favor to a fellow member of the POC, that lives in Indiana, I took a '28 Plym chassis and misc parts to Rapid City so he could meet me and get the chassis & parts, thereby saving him 2,800 + miles of driving.

I picked the '49 Olds up at Moores Auto Salvage in Rapid City. Moores has been mentioned many times here on the POC DB, both by me and other contributers. I believe that I have mentioned many times that many of the parts required to restore my '39 conv came from Moores. During the course of my visit there on October 20/21 I had the good fortune to take my time to really do an extensive tour of the yard. Since I had my motor home, Russ Moore let me stay the night in the wrecking yard saving me the expense of finding a parking place for the night. The over night stay also added to my tour/picture time, I was up early on the 21st , wondering around the extensive inventory of cars taking pictures.

I was very impressed with Moores stock of '37/41 Plymouth's,  most of them were picked pretty clean of the common chrome parts and accessories, however there are plenty of doors, fenders, etc. there, and if you look close you will find a heater or two as well as other hard to find items. The majority of sheet metal I saw was in very good shape. Moores also has a very large stock of Chrysler built cars from the 1920's through the 1960's.

Did I find anything for my '39 Plym.... no I did not, I did find some parts for my '31 PA, but that is another story. I did find a bunch of parts for a friend of mines '39 Dodge coupe which I bought and took to him in Idaho....Bill     
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on February 06, 2008, 01:56:52 PM
It would appear from my lack of postings to this topic for past couple of months that my '39 Plym project is in neutral..... this is not really the case
I have been busy trying to get the conv. top mech rebuilt.  Fortunitly everything for the top was on the car when I found it so I have not had to search for missing/broken parts. The big problem I have had is in getting a new front header panel made. The front header for a '39 top is made out of hard wood (oak) which is comprised of layers of oak laminated and finger jointed together. I had the original one to use as a pattern, the only trick was in getting someone to undertake the job.

I finally found a fellow in Washington that said he could make a wood header, that he made then all the time for other people and that he had a pattern for the '39 Plyms.
I ordered the panel from him..... when it arrived I could not get it unwrapped quick enough.  :( The panel is not laminated wood, it has been made from a solid piece of oak and it has a 1/4" wrap already. When I called the man he said that he made all of his headers out of solid wood so there would be no joints to come apart. He did not feel the wrapage was a problem, the top clamps would draw it down,..... and no one else had complained about his products in the past. I returned the part to him.

Being somewhat handy with wood working when I put my mind to it, I made my own panel by gluing 3/4" thick oak together, I staggered the overlap of the wood strips at the V joint in lieu of finger joints. The whole affair seems quite strong.   

The next problem I have had is with the bolts that attach the whole assembly into the car. These bolts are very special shoulder bolts with a large head that was originally chrome plated. The bolts vary in shoulder length and thread size..... leave it to Chrysler to make things difficult.  After months of looking I finally found that I would have to have the bolts made..... and then chrome plate the heads.... money money money.

While driving down the road recently I had a brain flash..... yes something still works up there.  Why not start out with stainless steel bolts, have then machined and forget the chrome plating.  I purchased enough 11/16" SS bolts (for the head size) to make three sets of bolts and took them to a machinist. I talked to the machinist on Monday, he figures he will have the bolds  finished by the end of the week....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on February 25, 2008, 01:30:39 PM
I have recently been spending some time sorting through the pictures I have of my '39 Plym, starting from the day I found the car sitting in a field in Montana in June, 1996.
The reason I have been sorting through the pictures is because I have been writing an article I call "Rust In Peace" for the Golden State Region News Letter. Recently there was a change in the publisher of the News Letter, the new publisher has asked me to continue with my article (s), also,  he would like me to include pictures with my articles for publication in the news letter.

While perusing through the pictures I came upon a picture of the firewall area of my car that I have always found to be very interesting. My car was originally black with a red wine colored interior.  The photo of the firewall I took in June, 1996 clearly shows that the firewall was never painted with anything other than the original red oxide primer. 
I wonder?.... Why was the firewall not painted body color? Did some Chrysler plants do things differently, or was it just a mistake which the factory did not see as a big deal since it was just the firewall in the engine compartment....Bill   
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Jim Benjaminson on February 25, 2008, 11:32:17 PM
Bill - Just had to add my own two cents worth here.  In all my years, I've never seen any Plymouth with just a primed firewall.  The early cars (up to 1934) had a black firewall regardless of body color (and I'd love to know the reasoning behind that!).  Is it possible there was some bodywork done on the car before you dragged it home that would have had the firewall primed?  A lot of things can happen over 60 years.   Was the front sheet metal intact on the car when you dragged it home?  Any body got any ideas or seen any other primed firewalls, of any year?
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on February 26, 2008, 12:14:14 PM
Jim,   I could find no evidence that the cowl/firewall had ever been worked on other than repairs to the lower quarters at the sills. Only the firewall portion was red primer, the sides of the cowl had yellow paint pealing off the original black. When I removed the body number, etc., tags from the firewall, the area under the tags was also red primer. Knowing auto painters like I do, I would find it to be very unlikely that a painter in the late 1940's would remove the engine and ID tags to put primer on the cowl, then reinstall same, without putting a finish coat of paint over the primer.

When I found the car sitting in the field in Montana, where it had been sitting for 38 years, the front end was not on the car, it had been removed in order to remove the engine. The engine, etc., was sitting in the grass in front of the car. Backing up 38 years from 1996 means that the car had been sitting in the field since 1958. I have to admit that I thought that the unpainted firewall was very unusual, that is why I took pictures of the area before I moved the car.

I have tried to post a picture to the forum of the cowl area of the car but for some reason I can't get them to go through, I will see if I can sent a pix or two to Mark so he can post them to the forum....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Jim Benjaminson on February 26, 2008, 01:35:07 PM
Thanks Bill - I was wondering how long the car had sat.  And when it comes to Plymouth, I've learned never to say "they never did it!".  I agree, no painter would have removed the tags to paint and then re-installed them!  Usually they paint over everything, whether it was supposed to be or not.....
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe PHOTOS
Post by: POC-Admin on February 26, 2008, 07:35:30 PM
WM, I added them to your first post and here.

Good lesson for anyone trying to post photos on a non-apple website.

In the file names NO spaces ever - they are flaky in a file name and include ONLY one period (dot). before the file extension (jpg).

Also all need to be small file size - less than 400 Kbytes - that means 800 Pixels max width and 72 pixels resolution photos taken directly from a digital camera will not work they are nice for printing but not here.

Mark

(http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/upload/39Plym-1.jpg)
(http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/upload/39Plym-2.jpg)
(http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/upload/39Plym-3.jpg)
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Jim Benjaminson on February 26, 2008, 10:53:36 PM
Wow, the car has come a long way!  I had a '39 convertible I sold and never seen or heard of it since. 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: elmo on February 27, 2008, 12:09:19 AM
Jim   i agree there are some painters? that would do things like that , but i would like to think that the true tradesman would not. I have been painting since 1966 and have always removed or masked out the tags , depending on what quality job i was being paid for. I was tought the old way , if the job is worth doing , do it properly or not at all.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on February 27, 2008, 02:25:25 PM
Mark,  You omitted the picture showing the cowl area of my car. Could you please add it to the forum so evreyone can see what I am talking about.

Thank you.... Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: POC-Admin on February 29, 2008, 10:02:52 PM
Look again - hehehe.

Oops.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 01, 2008, 12:27:40 AM
Mark, thank you for correcting the pix posting.

For those of you that review the pix Mark recently posted of the firewall area of my '39,... when you review the pix, you will note that the red primer extends all the way down to the bottom portion of the towers that attach the cowl to the frame. There was no evidence of primer on the frame which would lead one to believe that the primer was on the cowl before it was mounted on the frame. The dark edge on the bottom portion of the cowl is rust that formed when the cowl was exposed to the elements for 38 years.

The darker yellow on the rear portion of the body was done by the previous owner and his girl friend. They did this for a school project because they wanted the car to look like a 'clown car'.... Every time I talk to the previous owner of the car he has to relay to me the great fun he and his friends had with the car.... to him and his friends it was just an old car with little value.

In my earlier posts to this topic on the prior POC DB, I made note as to why the front end and engine was off the car. As a refresher I will again explain why...
The previous owner parked the car in 1958 because he was out of school and it was time to get on with the day to day chores of working on his dad's farm. During the harvest of their grain the Chrysler industrial engine went out in their combine. Since the Plymouth engine was very similar to the industrial engine they pulled the engine out of the Plym to put it in the combine. For some reason they removed the pan from the Plym , they found something they did not like so they just left the engine sitting in the grass in front of the car....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on June 24, 2008, 02:42:16 PM
Not much has been happening with my '39 Plym for the last few months. I have been trying to get my conv. top mech straightened out so I can get the top on the car and finish up the upholstery.

Not being one to stagnate on one project, ie; my '31 Plym and '40 Buick, I recently went on one of my parts locating missions around the western U.S.

While on my trip I stumbled into a '42 Plym conv. coupe. The car is in pretty bad shape, but with enough money and some time it could be saved. I made an offer on the car,  which is being considered.......... I wonder? have I gone totally nuts in even thinking about taking on another convertible project?....Bill 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 05, 2008, 12:16:22 PM
Currently on eBay there is a very interesting 39 Plym conv. coupe for sale, item #120278973868, ending on 7-11.
Several years ago I was contacted by a gentleman that owned and/or owns this car.
The fellow that contacted me had purchased a house and following the purchase of the house he found that a 39 Plym conv was sitting in the garage and came with the house.

The current bid price is $12,600, the reserve has not been met yet. Since the car obviously needs a total restoration, it will be interesting to see just how high the bidding
goes....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 06, 2008, 12:52:47 PM
If any of you convertible owners, lovers need sunvisor brackets for your car, currently on eBay there is a set of very nice 1948-52 Dodge trk chrome sunvisors. Item # 120280020839 @ $150. + 12. SH

Many years ago in searching for parts for my '39 conv. I found that the '48-50 Dodge truck visor brackets are chrome and are a direct replacement for the '37-39 DPCD open car visor brackets. The cap covering the arm spring is slightly different, but I doubt if anyone would ever notice.

In my junk yard travels I always look at the '48-52 Dodge trucks just in case the visors might still be there. I have picked up several sets, both the early chromed type and the later painted type....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 13, 2008, 02:33:44 PM
The bidding on eBay ended on the 11th for the '39 conv. coupe. The bidding capped at $19,202, a pretty significant price for an un-restored car. I would bet that the buyer will be somewhat disappointed when he gets the car. He might have been seduced by the claimed "provenance"....Bill 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 21, 2008, 01:26:06 PM
It seems as how baby steps is the name of the game when it comes to the problems associated with restoring a convertible.
I have been trying for close to two years to get a top on my car, problems with the top mechanism have thrown a wrench into the works at almost every turn.

As I have reported in my earlier posts to this topic, my car sat in an open field in Montana for over thirty-eight years, fortunately,  the top mechanism was complete but exposure to the elements had taken their toll. The "top irons" are fastened together with two types of fasteners, one being special large headed rivets and the other being special shoulder bolts of either 5/16" or 1/4" fine threated bolts which have a 5/8" head. All of these fasteners were originally chrome plated as was some of the cross arms.

After many months of agonizing over how to rechrome the parts needing chrome and research trying to find replacement shoulder bolts and something close to the large rivets, I came to the conclusion that I would not remove the rivets nor would I rechrome the four arms that were originally chrome plated, instead I would paint the whole assembly. The shoulder bolts became another big deal, ie; The portion of the bolt that goes through the arms has a shoulder larger than the thread, without the shoulders on the bolts it would be near impossible to keep the top mechanism in alignment.

Not being able to find replacement bolts, the next step was to have some made. Since the original bolts were chrome plated, this meant that replacement bolts would have to be made under size  to allow for the thickness of the chrome....Wrong... no one wanted to take the project on for a hand full of bolts of different sizes. After months of research the lights in my foggy head finally came on.... stainless steel bolts!!! I went to the bolt store and purchased 7/16" x 2" SS bolts. The 7/16" bolts gave me the head size I needed (5/8") and the length gave me bolts with shoulders in lieu of threads. After a couple of tries I found a machine shop that would cut the bolts down to the size I need. I had three sets of bolts made, one for my car. one for my friends car and one spare set.

The top assembly has now been stripped and bead blasted and is about to be painted.
Unfortunately something in the system, my camera or the POC Forum will not allow me  to post pictures showing how the bolts turned out. If anyone wants a picture I will be glad to email same to you....Bill

Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Jim Benjaminson on July 21, 2008, 09:52:08 PM
1948-52 Dodge truck sunvisor brackets?  I'm assuming you mean the Pilot House cab Dodge truck and not the pre-war 1939-1948 style, correct?
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 22, 2008, 12:44:46 PM
The Dodge truck visors I was referring to are the ones used in the '48 and later "pilot house" style of cab.
The visors listed on eBay went for the listing price of $150.... Wow.... someone really wanted them. Since I have six pair I guess I will have to get busy and list a couple of pair on the bay. Of course my luck will be that the $150 bid was one  of those situations where two fools met....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Jim Benjaminson on July 22, 2008, 09:00:11 PM
Seems to be a lot of fools meeting there lately.  Can't believe the prices some of the '34 stuff is bringing!  Don't pay a whole lot of attention to '39 parts....
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on August 08, 2008, 01:59:16 PM
A step closer to getting my top mechanism in working order.
As I have mentioned in my earlier posts, many of the mechanical portions of the top are unique to the '39's. The latching system is also part of the "one of" items found in the '39's. It would appear that since the '39's were the first Chrysler built car to have a V windshield, the Chrysler engineers came up with a center latching system for the top which required exposed rods, concealed springs on the latching hooks, which had nice chrome plated covers to tidy everything up.

Fortunately my latching assembly  was 99 % complete, only missing one small U shaped chrome cover. Ten years of looking did not turn up one of the U shaped covers, so I asked a friend of mine which has access to a machine shop if he could make up a couple of covers for me. I gave him a cover for a sample and he said he would try.  Six months later I was handed 12 new U shaped covers which had been formed out of stainless steel. I was also given the dye which he had to make in order to press the part. The dye is made out of three blocks of steel which bolt together..... WOW!....! I had no idea how much work would be involved to make the U shaped covers.
When set side by side it is impossible to tell the original from the new one, especially when I polished the stainless. 

The corner braces which attach the header panel and the side rail over the windows is very prone to breakage because they are made out of pot metal. Several years ago with the help of Roy Kidwell I was able to get a new set of corner brackets which a fellow had cast up out of stainless steel....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 11, 2008, 01:14:48 PM
Currently on eBay there is a '39 Plym Conv Coupe up for auction, item #19025617580. The car has been modified into a "Restorod" V8 AT, PB, AC, etc., it is painted lipstick red, gray interior with a black top.? In the So Cal area this car is one of the best know examples of the '39 Plym's. Prior to it being sold for $38k at Hot August Nights in 1998 it took trophy's at every car show it was entered in. The car also appeared in several car publications, and on a few posters, copies of which I have.
The current bid is sitting at $15k + with a BUY IT now of $31K +. Unfortunately the car has not been maintained to the standard it deserved, but then that is typical of cars people buy, in lieu of building....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 17, 2008, 05:14:40 PM
The bidding closed on the red '39 Plym conv.. The car did not make it's reserve of 31.k,? it did ratchet up to 17.k. Did the economy have an effect on the low bid? Maybe the flat tire and bubbled areas of the paint, had a significant impact on the bidding?

I have been in contact with Jim B. regarding the car. It turned out that the car is an unknown as far as the POC is concerned. I contacted the owner of the car and gave him info on the POC with the hope that he would join the club and/or pass the Club info onto the next owner. Since there is such a small number of known survivors of the '39 Plym Conv's, it would be nice to add another car to the list....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 12, 2009, 11:20:58 PM
Earlier today a posting was made to the POC (39 Plymouth Convertible Coupe) from a gentleman requesting info about the top latching mechanism.
I will make a brief posting to his topic, however, I will post the majority of my comments here on this topic.

Bill,.... I am very familiar with with the top latching mechanism on '39 Plym conv. coupes. If you read through the preceding postings I have made you will note that I have been working on my car, and a friends since 1997. The latching mechanism on the '39's is a very complicated affair because Chrysler went to a "V'd" windshield in '39 in lieu of the flat windshield that the earlier cars had. The '39 assembly has no similarity to the '40's.

The only person I know that might have a source on the latch mechanism would be Roy Kidwell in Maryland.... I have not talked to Roy in over a year, I will call him tomorrow to see if he has any parts and/or knows of someone who might.

At the present time, the top is not on my car, nor is it on the car that I am assisting with. Hopefully both tops will be installed within the next two months. I would not be adverse to supplying my latch mechanism for duplication, however there would be serious limitations because the latch mechanisms I have are all re-chromed and rebuilt ready to install.

I will attempt to post a picture of the latching mechanism.....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 39Plymouth on January 12, 2009, 11:46:03 PM
Bill,

Thanks for your reply and for your offer.  If it proves impossible that your contact in MD would have something, would you have a contact in your area that could make a mold of yours?  I don't know much about this to understand about the chrome plating etc...  I'm assuming you want to make a mold prior to it getting plated.?  Anyway, thanks very much for your help.  I could photograph my dad's latches so you could see exactly what he has or doesn't have.  If you had to guess, what do you think it might cost to have a set made up?  I believe he has most of the center locking mechanism, the rod pieces, but not the other latches.  Again, I'll just have to photograph what he has.  Would you be able to email me your email address?  My address is wmleiv@yahoo.com  Since he has looked for 14 years now, I wouldn't mind trying to do this for him as a surprise...a thank you for all he has done for me over the years.  Also, I did talk to someone locally here and he thought he might be able to do it even by having the dimensions, etc...

Thank you very much.

Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 16, 2009, 01:23:00 PM
Bill and I, (39Plymouth) have exchanged several emails over the last few days, where-in I have have attempted to find out just what they have in the way of latch parts.
I emailed him pictures of a disassembled latch assembly because they have very little in the way of an original assembly.
I have contacted just about everyone that I could think of that might have parts for the latch assembly. I was told that the person in the Eastern U.S. that was making latch parts has passed away.
Since I have a latch assembly that has not been installed on my car yet, I am checking around to see if I can find someone that is located fairly close to me that could/would cast up some latch hooks, etc; out of bronze. I am a little reluctant to send my parts away for use as patterns because they are all rebuilt and re-chromed ready to install.
In the past when I have reached a point where a certain part and/or parts have been impossible to buy I have purchased a complete, or near complete car, I then remove the parts I need and resell the car. Sometimes I part the car out, then sell the parts I don't need.
I purchased two '39 Plym sedans to get parts for my '39 Plym. Many years ago I was redoing a '63 Chevy Nova SS conv., I purchased two hard tops for parts cars, one of the cars I purchased just to get a fender peak trim piece.
In many cases, old cars/trucks have greater value as parts in lieu of a complete car....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on February 11, 2009, 01:42:06 PM
After a considerable amount of checking around looking for a foundry that could/would be interested in casting up parts for a latch assembly, low and behold I found one in Oxnard, CA which is only six miles from me.
I took my latch assembly over to them yesterday for their review. They can cast the parts out of aluminum, bronze or a stainless steel. I told them to put together a cost estimate using bronze or stainless... I am leaning towards stainless because the need for chrome plating would be eliminated.
Naturally the engineering and set up costs for the molds would be the most expensive part of the project. Since the molds are usable for several castings, I am thinking I will have at least 10 sets of hooks, posts and T handles made.
The new parts would look exactly like the originals because the molds would be made from my latch's.
This is not going to be a cheap project. The engineering of the molds and fabrication of same is going to run into the thousands of dollars, then the cost to polish the parts and make the necessary pins. screws, etc. has to be added in.
The pay off would be that a new latch assembly would be available for those cars that either have none and/or parts would be available for the cars that have not surfaced yet
I reviewed my '36-42 Mopar parts book yesterday to see if the '39 latch assembly had any other applications in the DPCD line. Nada, zip, none.
The lowly '39 Plym conv. coupe/4 dr conv. sdn is a stand alone, sharing nothing with it's previous brothern, that is in the top portion of the car...Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on April 30, 2009, 02:16:19 PM
Over the past few years that I have been writing here on the topic about the rebuilding/restoration of my 39 Plym conv., I have made mention many times of the help I have given to? to a fellow 39 Plym conv owner, "The Alabama Car".? Some of the more frequent readers of this topic may recall my comments about the terrible shape the Alabama car was in having been purchased sight unseen on eBay as a "ready for paint" car which turned out to be a basket case which was missing many parts and had extensive body rust out which had been repaired with window screen, epoxy rosin and/or bondo.

Through postings to the Plym Bulletin, information turned up that the fellow that had owned the Alabama car had tried for many years to sell the car at various swap meets in the Eastern US, failing to do this he resorted to selling parts off the car which explained why so many rare parts were missing from the car when it sold on eBay. A very good example of "Buyer Be Aware" if you don't, or can't go look at a car, don't buy it purely on the sellers word.

After almost five years of work the Alabama car is now to a point that it is running and drivable.? The paint work is done, painted Faria red.

Many of the missing parts were over time located. The windshield outer chrome and inner molding was purchased on eBay. When these pieces arrived it was very obvious that they were from the Alabama car because of the primer coat used. Another clincher was that the car came with one exterior conv molding and one sedan molding. The set of exterior molding purchased on eBay was one conv and one sedan molding in the proper sides to make match pairs. The replacement of the missing side windows and tracts became an impossible task. Because the Plymouth and Ford bodies were all made by Briggs, it was hoped that the door windows from a '38-39 Ford would fit the Plym.... We were finally able to purchase a Ford window on eBay.... AT GREAT EXPENCE... It turned out that the window was close but not a match.

I recently located a metal man that was able to duplicate my window frames and tract assembly so we now have windows for the Alabama car. The building of the window frames was not cheap. They were built out of stainless steel just like the originals. Even the brass roller guides were made the same as the originals. We are going to use power operators on the windows so we won't have to have the gear drive operators built for the windows....Bill? ?
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Chrycoman on May 08, 2009, 04:06:01 AM
Although Briggs may have built bodies for Ford and Plymouth, Briggs did not design the bodies.? Ford bodies were designed by Ford and Plymouth bodies by Chrysler and Briggs had the contract to built bodies to the specifications as per Ford and Chrysler.? Thus nothing on a Briggs-built Ford body will fit a Briggs-built Plymouth body.? And vice-versa.? ?However, many parts on a Briggs-built Plymouth body will interchange with a Hamtramck-built Dodge body or a Kercheval-built DeSoto / Chrysler body.
 
As for the 4-door convertible bodies, the 1937-38 Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler bodies were built by Murray.? ?The 1939 Plymouth 4-door convertibles bodies were an update of those 1937-38 bodies (revised cowl with new two-piece windshield) and thus were built by Murray as well.? ?I believe the 1937-39 convertible coupe bodies were also built by Murray.

By the way, the reason for the extra 3" in wheelbase on the 1939 convertible sedan over the other Plymouth models was due to the fact the convertible sedan body was a Dodge-DeSoto-Chrysler body.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 09, 2009, 01:28:14 PM
It has been well documented that Briggs built a significant amount of bodies for Ford and that all of the open cars through the late 1930's were built by Briggs.
There is probably no doubt that Chrysler/Ford and the other automobile brands that used company's like Briggs to built their bodies, designed the bodies, however, I would bet with a lot of help from Briggs. One must remember that during the 1930's, Briggs had one of the major auto design studios.

 I am the first one to admit that there is hardly anything on a DPCD built car that shares parts from a Ford or GM built car.
The only exception I have found to the exclusiveness of body parts, is the door check arms and the weather seals for the rumble seat deck lid. The door check arms and the seals for a '35/36 Ford rumble lid are a perfect fit for the 37/39 DPCD convertibles. Was this carryover intentional so Briggs could save some money? I would venture the guess that it was, and that neither Chrysler or Ford were aware of the interchangebility of these parts.

It has been well documented in the published data, one of which being the Standard Catalog of American Cars, that starting in about 1935 Chrysler adopted a policy of using the same basic body shell on all of their cars. The Chrysler Airway series, Desoto Series S, Dodge and the Plymouth convertibles all share the same basic body shell.
The research I have done for the article I am writing about the wind wings for the 37/41 convertibles, seems to indicate that the body numbers for the DPCD convertibles just might be consecutive....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Jim Benjaminson on May 09, 2009, 09:26:50 PM
To update Chrycoman - the '39 Plymouth convertible coupe bodies were built by Briggs.  And, yes, the convertible sedans were Murray bodies.  Briggs did do design work and attempted to sell their designs to Chrysler (and probably others).  As Bill Steed has pointed out, its possible body numbers were shared between Plymouth-Dodge-DeSoto-Chrysler convertibles.  The only data base of numbers available if for Plymouth, put together by Earl Buton and myself from Plymouth Club records.  If WPC, Nat'l DeSoto or others kept track of cars by their I/D. numbers we maybe could prove that theory but as it stands, there is no data for the non-Plymouth Chryco cars.....

Another interesting thought on bodies -  all Plymouth coupe and two door sedan bodies were provided by Dodge, yet they all carried Briggs body codes.  Other Plymouth bodies came from the Kercheval plant (info from known Service Card Record files).   The more we learn, the more questions that come up.......
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Chrycoman on May 12, 2009, 03:59:44 AM

Did all Plymouth bodies come from Hamtamck and Kercheval, or just bodies for Lynch Road production?  I know Briggs had a body plant in Evansville, undoubtedly for Evansville production.   Many writers claim Briggs built bodies for Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler, but I suspect that is not the case.  It would make sense if Hamtramck and Kercheval produced bodies for Plymouth's Lynch Road plant.   Starting in 1950 the ex-Graham-Paige plant on Warren Avenue began building bodies for the DeSoto plant on Wyoming Avenue.

Briggs, Murray and Budd did not have body plants in Canada, although Budd did produced body parts.   Chrysler of Canada built their own bodies from parts manufactured by themselves, Canadian suppliers or Chrysler's U.S. suppliers.   When Fisher Body stopped building bodies for Chrysler the two Fisher Body plants in Walkerville were acquired by Chrysler.   The new plant on Chrysler Centre completed in 1929 took up body production as well as replacing both the Dodge Brothers assembly plant in Toronto and the Chrysler plant on Tecumseh Avenue.

Briggs, Murray, Hayes and Budd all built bodies and parts and had their own in-house styling departments.  Briggs did submit styling proposals to Chrysler in the 1930's.  Murray's head stylist, Amos Northup, had a number of designs accepted by car companies - 1929 Willys-Knight plaid-side roadster, 1931 Reo Royale, 1933 Willys, 1937 Willys and 1938 Graham. 

Bill
Vancouver, BC
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 07, 2009, 01:55:11 AM
Another hurdle has been over come to get the "two" 39 conv's finished..........
Namely the side windows !
The side windows on the '39 conv coupes are like everything else on the cars, very complicated affairs with spring loaded side rails, that have felt anti-rattle strips inserted into a small channel.
The items I am referring to are generally called glass run channel assemblies, the units used in the convertibles have no similarities to the units used in the closed car.

I have fretted about the anti-rattle felts for months because no one knew what I was talking about, the advise was always the same.... modify the channels to accept modern window channel material. I had toyed with the idea except I could not see how I could get a window frame that is 1/2" wide to smoothly function in a metal channel that is slightly over 5/8 wide, if modern window channel reduced the channel to 3/8" or less. >:(

While looking through Restoration Specialities Catalog I came upon a listing for 1/8" x 3/4" felt.? I thought, Hmmmm ? could this material be made to work? I ordered several feet of the product. Upon the arrival of the felt I took a large pair of scissors and cut the felt into 1/4" strips. Once I un-crimped the ends and cleaned the groves in the window run channels, the new felt slid right into the grove. I then re-crimped the ends to secure the felt.

A second problem with the window assembly was noted.....
The window frame has multiple sets of small bronze rollers which guide the window within the glass run channel. These rollers have a small dimple which holds a small ball bearing that acts as an axle for the roller. Here-in because the Ford and Plymouth convertible coupes were made by Briggs, the Ford windows are very similar, but not the same. Ford used fewer and larger rollers with conventional axles.? From the time the windows were assembled the rollers never received any lubrication so needless to say the rollers are generally in very poor condition, and in several cases they don't exist. I went to a machine shop and had several new rollers made out of bronze. We were able to reuse some of the original rollers by silver soldiering the oversize dimple and then re-drilling same to fit the bearing axle.? ? ?

It was interesting to note that the glass run channels used on the Plymouth's are patented, with the info stamped into the outer edge of the channel....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 10, 2009, 12:47:47 PM
Convertible Glass Run Channels..... the rest of the story.
After writing the previous article about the glass run channels I got out my Chryco Parts Catalogs covering 1936-1942, my intent being to do some further research on the glass run channels.

The '36-42 catalog shows pictures of the various glass run channels, which the '39 parts book does not show, one of which is the one for the front (front door hinge pillar). There is no exploded view of the parts contained therein. The information contained in the '36-42 parts catalog does seem to indicate that the '37-39 convertibles did use the same glass run channel:

Right front door hinge pillar glass run channel assy........ #760730
Left? front door hinge pillar glass run channel assy......... #760731
Right? rear door lock pillar glass run channel assy .......... #746547
Left? ?rear door lock pillar glass run channel assy? .......... #746548

Of course the above part numbers are of little value because there is no source to order the parts from.? There is one advantage to having such information, the search for replacement parts can be broadened to cover three years of DPCD cars in lieu of just the '39 Plyms....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on August 10, 2009, 01:04:48 PM
Sun visors for 37-41 conv. cpe's.....
Currently there is a listing on eBay, #400064670217 @$225. for a pair of visors for a '48-50 Dodge trk (pilot house cab).
The brackets for these visors are a direct replacement for the visor brackets on the '37-41 DPCD convertibles. The visor itself is also usable on these cars, however the backing board has to be cut down to an overall width of 4.5".

The chrome on the brackets is very nice according to the listing and pix... The last pair that I saw on eBay went for $155. as I recall.
Since I have three sets of these visor brackets, it would appear that investing in same is better than investing in the stock market and/or gold. ;D....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on September 09, 2009, 12:58:26 AM
What is happiness?......
Over the Labor Day weekend I decided it was time to put the Plym on a road trip. I own a house up near Paso Robles so I figured that since the weather was really great, a ride up the coast on 101 was the thing to do.

My grand son volunteered to go with me so bright and early Saturday morning we headed out. The first fifty miles up the coast was in shirt sleeves, when we turned inland at Gaveota it got a little cooler so we put our sweaters on. The Plym purred along at a constant 70-75 mph pulling 2,100 + rpm's at that speed. When we returned on Monday the weather was a little warmer so it was shirt sleeves all the way from Paso to Ventura.

The looks on peoples faces is priceless when they notice that a '39 Plymouth convertible is passing them in the left lane doing a constant 70 +.... Several people sped up so they could get pictures of the "Green Machine" cruising down the road. The driver of a late model Mustang convertible decided he wanted to play, he sped by me on the right, shot up the road jumping into the left lane then backed off on the throttle. Now that was like a red flag to me so I dropped the hammer cranking up past 120, shooting by him on the right like he was in reverse. I proved my point so I backed off to 70, and let him burn up the road.

A lot of people might think that 120 mph is a little to fast for a '39 Plym..... In stock form I would agree, however one must keep in mind that the suspension under my car is not '39 Plym..... everything is the best the aftermarket performance people can come up with.

I am really looking forward to getting the top on in the next couple of months.... It should even be more mind boggling to the other motorists when the Plym slips by them with the shaded windows and top up....? 8)...... Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 08, 2009, 02:04:26 PM
I was reading through my earlier postings to this topic and discovered that my description of the process to install new felt ant-rattle insulators into the window run channels was not quite accurate

I have fretted about the anti-rattle felts for months because no one knew what I was talking about, the advise was always the same.... modify the channels to accept modern window channel material. I had toyed with the idea except I could not see how I could get a window frame that is 1/2" wide to smoothly function in a metal channel that is slightly over 5/8 wide, if modern window channel reduced the channel to 3/8" or less. >:(

While looking through Restoration Specialities Catalog I came upon a listing for 1/8" x 3/4" felt.? I thought, Hmmmm ? could this material be made to work? I ordered several feet of the product. Upon the arrival of the felt I took a large pair of scissors and cut the felt into 1/4" strips. Once I un-crimped the ends and cleaned the groves in the window run channels, the new felt slid right into the grove. I then re-crimped the ends to secure the felt....Bill

This is the whole story on installing new felt strips into the window run channels:
The 1/8" x 3/4" black felt I received from Restoration Speciality's was a fat 1/8", while the grove it had to fit into was a very thing 1/8". I? struggled with this situation for many hours. The felt was fairly easy to place into the grove for the first couple of inches, then as it warmed up it seem to expand, the more I fiddled with the felt the harder it was to fit it into the grove.
In time and old saying my dad had taught me came to mind...... This ain't your girl friend, so.... quit playing with it...

I tried freezing the felt, thinking that the cold would shrink the felt, and thereby making it easier to use.... wrong... cold has little effect on felt. I finally came up with the idea to cut the felt to size, approximately 5/16" wide, then I placed the felt onto a 1" angle iron, placed a flat strip of steel over the felt and placed clamps all along the piece, tightening the clamps so as to compress the felt as much as possible. I left the felt in the compressing device for several hours, then I removed the felt and quickly placed it into the grove before it could rebound to it natural size.
The compression of the felt did the trick, I was able to insert the felt into the grove in about a minute per strip.

I wonder??... Is all this effort to restore the window channel assembly really worth the time and work? When I look down into the inner workings of most doors on reputedly restored vehicles, I see operators and window run assemblies that have not even been cleaned, yet the claim is made that the car has been restored.
In my mind the term RESTORED... means that the item has been repaired/rebuilt to as new, or better, standards.

I guess I have a problem, I don't like to do things twice...... as my father told me... "If you can't find time to do the project right, when are you going to find to redo it?"....Bill? ? ?
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 36 Ply on November 08, 2009, 07:13:54 PM
I would imagine that 120 mph would be about 50 mph in the "unattainable range" for a stock '39 Plymouth. :)  ;D ;)

And I wouldn't try a sustained 70 mph with one either.  :)   ;D :D

Regards,
Pat O'Connor
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 09, 2009, 01:40:58 PM
I believe Pat's comment about the "attainable/sustained speed of a stock '39 Plym is pretty well on the mark.

In my quest to find parts and information about the '39 Plym conv's, I encountered a man named Marrion Cuttler in Idaho that had a '39 Plym conv which he had purchased in 1940 from a music teacher at IFHS.

Marrion told me many really neat stories about the 55 + years of ownership of the '39. He and wife used the car for their honeymoon when they were married in 1940. Marrion told me that in 1941 he tried to catch a Greyhound Bus that had left Idaho Falls, heading south for Salt Lake City. He drove the car at a high rate of speed for about 70 miles, then the engine threw a rod. Marrion had the car towed into the Chrysler/Plymouth dealer in Pocatello. When Marrion picked up the car, the Service Manager told him..... "Mister Cuttler, I do not want you to ever drive this car over 45 mph again" Marrion told me that from that time on, he never drove the '39 over 45 mph.

Another really neat story about the Plymouth was about a trip they took to Los Angeles in 1941, Upon their arrival in LA they could not find affordable lodging so they had to sleep in the car for several days. At night they would park in Griffith Park, the wife would sleep in the front seat, Marrion would sleep in the rumble seat.

Marrion was kind enough to get the car out of the garage anytime I asked him to, so I could take pictures of the car, and certain areas in particular. Marrion wanted me to buy the car, he feared what would happen to the car after he died. I was leary of the car because I could see that the car had been "refurbished" e.g. repainted and the engine repaired to running condition, in lieu of restored. Through the many conversations I had with Marrion, I could tell that he felt the car was worth a lot of money.

Marrion passed away several years ago, his daughter sold the car to a man in the Seattle area....Bill?
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 20, 2009, 01:58:46 PM
CONVERTIBLE TOPS:
During the twelve years or so that I have been trying to "restore" my '39 conv, I have encountered many frustrating parts suppliers and so called craftsmen that seem to have the same story pertaining to the quality, or lack there of, when it comes to the explanation (s) of why the parts don't fit or the repair leaves much to be desired:
I/WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR UMPTEEN YEARS AND YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON TO EVER COMPLAIN. The rebuilding/repairing of the top assembly has fallen into this same category.

The readers of this topic should keep in mind that my car sat in an open field in Montana for 38 years and my friends car, the Alabama car, was a basket case. I will jump start this topic, omitting all of the false starts, etc.. and just get on with the most recent accomplishments to get the tops done on the two cars:

Since the window problems have been solved, attention has shifted to the tops. The wooden bows and front wooden header panel was in bad shape on both cars, Combining the two assemblies together almost resulted in one acceptable pattern. I finally figured out that I was headed down the wrong path trying to get steam bent bows and laminated oak header panels. The lights finally came on in the corners of my brain.... telling me to find a "BOAT-WRIGHT" e.g. a person who works on wooden boats.

In very short order I was able to find a boat-wright because I live very close to the ocean so there are a lot of boat yards in the area. Explaining my project to the boat-wright and giving him the patterns I had resulted in a phone call in a couple of days to come over to the shop and view the BW's plan. He had already made up a "buck" to use for the construction of the bows. His plan was to laminate 1/8" thick oak strips over the buck, achieving the required basic shape, then dressing the laminated wood to the desired shape. The BW rational in using laminated wood in lieu of steam bent was that the laminated wood is stronger once the laminating strips are reversed from strip to strip. The same laminating process would be used on the header panel, using 3/4" wood and finger joints to create a V over the windshield.

Two weeks have passed, both rear bows are done except for some final dressing. The front header panels are 90% done, only the hardware needs to be fitted to the wood. The metal parts have all been bead blasted and the assembly has been mocked up using the new stainless steel bolts I had made. Arrangements have been made to have the metal parts powder coated once the assembly has been installed on the cars and the fit checked.

I have told the BW to make up two additional rear bows and possibly two front header panels which I will attempt to sell to offset some of the expense of making up the buck, ect.... Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 29, 2009, 02:00:40 PM
CONVERTIBLE TOPS & THE INTERNET:
Happy days are here.... The top mechanism is installed on the "Alabama Car". Everything bolted right up, the wooden header and wood rear bow fit perfectly. Looking at the Ala.Car with the top assembly in place was almost as good as sex. Well...? ;D? maybe that was an over statement. George, the owner of the Ala. car was really pleased when he saw the assembly all mounted up. His car has been under construction for over four years with it costing him a suit case full of money. Unfortunetly,? George does not have the skills to do any of his own work, so he has to rely on other people.

I guess a person could wonder why we built the top assembly for the Ala. Car before we built mine... Very simple, since we had to have a lot of parts made, I, we, used the Ala.Car as the test car, once everything was fitted, etc. to the Ala.Car, it would be a slam dunk to mount my assembly.

The top assembly for my car will be ready to install within a week to ten days, then both top assemblies will be removed and taken to the powder coating shop. I stopped in at the shop that is doing my upholstery on Wednesday to give them a heads up that I would be ready for my top fabric and the finishing of the upholstery shortly after the first of the year.

I recently had an email forwarded to me by Tod Fitch, he had received the forwarded email from a lady that was looking for sun visors for a '39 Plym conv. Tod was kind enough to tell the lady that I was "very knowledgeable with the '39 convertibles". I responded to the lady, steering her to the Plymbul Forum, I also told her about the set of '48-50 Dodge (Pilot house) truck visors that were listed on ebay... The listing on ebay had recently been lowered from $225. to Buy It Now @209.

A word of caution about the Dodge truck visors.... The '48-50 visors were chrome/nickle plated from the factory, they are the closest match for the '39 conv.s. The '51 and later are not chrome plated, and they are slightly larger, however the bolt pattern is the same as the earlier visors. With the price and difficultly of getting good chrome now, the price of $209 looked pretty good to me.

An additional factor to keep in mind is that the visors are left and right and the backer boards, with attachments, can be cut down to the required 4.25", then covered with the proper material in lieu of the embossed card board coverings that the trucks had.   

The lady emailed me back, saying that after reading my Aug, 09 posting to the PB Forum, she went online and bought the visors. She also mentioned in her email how pleased she was with the help Tod and I were able to give her.... Maybe we made a friend for our group? ....Bill

 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on December 10, 2009, 01:06:19 PM
CONVERTIBLE TOPS;
Today is the day we fit the top mechanism to my car.... I can hardly wait.
Since we have already gone through the fitting process with the Alabama Car, the process on my car should be a slam dunk....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 36 Ply on December 11, 2009, 09:19:07 AM
It is faster, thanks Mark. I was able to log in; now, whatever is in the little boxes directly below Wm Steed's name, now there are small red X's. I tried "show picture" but it didn't help.

Regards,
Pat O'Connor
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: POC-Admin on December 11, 2009, 04:35:24 PM
Another file I had to restore.  The pentastars are back now.

Mark
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 28, 2010, 02:09:25 PM
Happy birthday to my Plym.....
My '39 Plym conv. was built 71 years ago today in the Long Beach, CA Chrysler plant.  Chrysler Historical supplied me with that bit of info when I obtained the build sheet from them many years ago.

The Plymouth owners should be very glad that we have dedicated, knowledgeable people like Jim Benjaminson, and others, along with a Company like Walter Chrysler built.  The wealth of information available for the Plymouth's is staggering. If you owned a Ford built prior to 1949, the information available is very vague.

I have been a member of the Early Ford V8 Club for over 30 years, I have a 36 Ford coupe that I have owned for over 55 years. As a result of my interest in Fords I visit and contribute to the EFFV8 web site on a regular basis. Recently there has been a very hot topic about body identification on '37-38 & 39 Ford conv. cpe's. I have made several contributions to this topic because Briggs Mfg., the builder of Plym conv cpe bodies, was also the main supplier of Fords conv cpe bodies.

The debate on the EFV8 forum centers around the absence of body tags on many of the Ford conv's...... In doing research for an article about the wind wings on '37-41 ChryCo built cars, I have noted that many of the Plym's are missing their body tags, I am not sure why.... I don't think they fell off. The open bodied Fords have always been a much more popular car, compared to the Plym's, it is a known fact that many of the Ford's have doubtful parentage because of the absence of good records....  Ford did not document their cars like Chrysler did, a Ford can not be tracked. Ford only used a VIN that was assigned to the engine/trans unit, the number being stamped on the transmission.... When the power train was installed in the chassis, the VIN was stamped into the frame in three places. If a Ford body was supplied by an out sourced builder, the builder attached a body number for their tracking purposes, just like the ChryCo cars. Ford did not record this body number anywhere, Chrysler did.

I guess it is a good thing I can sit behind the safety of my computer screen and point out the plus's of owning a Plym conv in lieu of a Ford to the Ford people. 8) ....Bill

Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 29, 2010, 12:11:35 AM
Happy Birthday to my 39 Plym..... revisited
I have been thinking about the earlier posting I made to the forum all day. It finally dawned on me that I was being very insensitive to the feelings of a great automobile when I referred to it as my Plym, at the very least I could have called it a Plymouth... As my remorse grew it dawned on me that the Plym needed a proper name.

For some reason, unbeknown to most people, it is common for a guy to give his car a female name. Of course Christine comes to name, however, that name works for a flashy late model Plymouth, but not a stogy old Plymouth. Butter Cup fits for a yellow '41 Plymouth convertible, however, my Plym is a sedate British Racing Green, so.... should I use a proper British name?.... Nah

Women relate to my car all the time. I am constantly being asked by women of all ages to take them for a ride. At a car show in September, my car received the ladies choice award. A male name would probably work very well.. but what male name. Many of the Bogart movies filmed in the late thirties had Plymouths, one of the leading ladies drove a '39 Plymouth convertible coupe in the movie the "Big Sleep"...... So should it be "Boggy"?.... Nah.

Maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole hill? After all I rescued the Plym from the wilds of Montana where it had endured at least 38 very cold winters. The Plym has had it's own warm comfy garage since 1998. I have also given new life to the Plym, with the transfusion to all of the key parts, and a complete new suite of cloths. However, the project is not complete until the Plym has a proper name.

After much thought I have decided that the Plym will be named "Walter". I did not choose that name because of Walter P. Chrysler, even tho it would be appropriate, I choose the name because of one of my favorite movies.... Sleepless In Seattle.... Everyone knows that Tom Hanks is the leading man in the movie and Melony Griffin is the leading lady.... so where does Walter come in? Walter is the "other man" that Melony dumps for Hanks. Poor Walter is the very stable guy from a good family, however, he has respiratory  problems always coughing and weezing, kind of sounds like a Plymouth, where-as Hanks is very verile, has a darling kid that needs a mother, and he lives on a house boat in Seattle.

Happy Birthday Walter..... has a better ring to it don't you think?   
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: furylee on January 29, 2010, 08:56:18 AM
Happy Birthday to my 39 Plym..... revisited
I...

After much thought I have decided that the Plym will be named "Walter". I did not choose that name because of Walter P. Chrysler, even tho it would be appropriate, I choose the name because of one of my favorite movies.... Sleepless In Seattle.... Everyone knows that Tom Hanks is the leading man in the movie and Melony Griffin is the leading lady.... so where does Walter come in? Walter is the "other man" that Melony dumps for Hanks. Poor Walter is the very stable guy from a good family, however, he has respiratory  problems always coughing and weezing, kind of sounds like a Plymouth, where-as Hanks is very verile, has a darling kid that needs a mother, and he lives on a house boat in Seattle.

Happy Birthday Walter..... has a better ring to it don't you think?   

Great movie, but it wasn't Melony Griffin as the leading lady, it was Meg Ryan.  Lee
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 29, 2010, 01:00:20 PM
Yes..... I knew it was Meg Ryan..... I could claim that I just wanted to see if anyone actually read the nonsense I wrote.
Actually.... I have to fess up... I had a brain hiccup....Bill ;D
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 28, 2010, 04:13:41 PM
Convertible tops and nice driving weather:
Finally after many months of frustration to get parts rebuilt and/or made for the top mechanisms, they (both cars) are assembled and installed on the cars. I had the assemblies powder coated in a "camel" color which is similar to the original color. The latch assemblies really look great with the new chrome. The "Alabama" car is going to the upholstery shop next week to get the top put on and finish up some misc. upholstery work.

My car is going to the paint shop tomorrow AM to get the paint touched up, a few issues here and there following all the assembly work. My car is going into the upholstery shop on the 10th of April to get its top and tidy up some misc. upholstery issues.

We had some issues with the power window assemblies that I bought from Nu-Relics.... Everything fit good, the windows went down very good, however, they needed a "hand assist" to go up. When I called Nu-Relic's they instructed me to return the operators to them and they would install assist springs on the assembly. I guess they had miss calculated the weight of the ChryCo assemblies.

Nu-Relic's modified the operators and returned them to me postage prepaid with-in a couple of weeks.... they now work great... If you need power windows for your car contact Nu-Relic's.... THEY ARE GREAT PEOPLE!!!!!  (336 699-8949)

Yesterday was a perfect topless day here in So Cal, 84 degrees. I got "Walter" out, dusted him off and hit the road. Great ride up on a two lane road called Foothill that traverses through citrus groves. I had to be careful because the road has a 55 MPH speed limit. When I came back to Ventura I dropped down to the 126 freeway and let "Walter" loose..... He does like to run at speed, just like a race horse with his ears back and nostril's flared.

Several years ago I read a story about a very famous race boat of the late 1920's. The boats name is "Baby Bootlegger", it was designed by George Crouch on a commission by Mr. Caleb S Bragg, a wealthy businessman who liked to race boats. Baby Bootlegger won several races in 1924-25, winning the Gold Cup Race in 1925 against three other George Crouch designed boats. In 1926 Baby Bootlegger disappeared following an engine compartment fire. Reportedly the boat had been sold to a boat breaker yard in the the Quebec area where the engine was dismantled for scrap and the hull cut up for fire wood.

In the 1970's a man named Mark Mason, who was very interested in old wood racing boats heard about Baby Bootlegger. He did a lot of research on the the boat finally finding a man who had purchased the boat from Mr Bragg. Further research found the boat sitting in a shed that the breaker had built to protect the boat because he could not bring himself to break it up...... When Mr Mason and the owner opened the shed the man told Mr Mason.... " I knew that you were coming. I  saved the boat for you. I did not think you would take so long".  According to the article Baby Bootlegger has been completely restored by Mr Mason and at last report resides in it's own all weather boathouse on Lake George.

In a sense "Walter" is like Baby Bootlegger.... "Walter" waited in a open field in Montana for 38 years for me to come to his rescue....Bill   
 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: 36 Ply on March 28, 2010, 11:16:17 PM
Cool boat story, Bill. And congratulations on the progress on your '39 convertible.

Regards,
Pat O'Connor
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on June 17, 2011, 12:21:50 PM
After a hiatus from this thread for over a year I thought it is high time I updated "Walters" progress.

I made note in March 2010 that "Walter" was going into the body shop to get some paint issues touched up prior to finishing the top and upholstery. The car was in the shop for several days with no progress. I pressed the painter to get moving with the work, he had told me he would have the repairs done in a week. After two weeks of hardly any action, the man told me that some of the SS trim was in the way. I told him... DON'T TOUCH ANY OF THE TRIM, I WOULD REMOVE ANYTHING IN HIS WAY... Another two weeks went by, with very little action. i was starting to get very up set. I had and appointment at the upholstery shop which was quickly coming up.

A couple more weeks passed, with very little progress... When I tried to push the painter he got mad... The big problem was that the issues with the paint were his fault which were apparent before we started the final assembly of the body. Things went from bad to worse, I finally took all of the trim off because the painter screwed up several areas trying to spot the paint in.

To make a long story short, the guy ended up repainting the car twice, of course he wanted to be paid for all this work. Fortunately I had documented the issues with pictures and notes so I told the guy to go fly a kite. In the end he got even with me.. it took five months to get the paint fixed. By the time I got the car back I had lost my appointment with the upholstery shop and I had lost a lot of my enthusiasm to reinstall all the trim, bumpers, etc.

In January of 2011 I developed a problem with my back that has prevented me from working on my projects, Walter in particular. My back has gotten a little better so during the past couple of weeks, I have been working on Walter.

I did get the "Alabama" '39 conv. done for my friend... It turned out very nice.. He has been driving to car shows and general cruising, however, I understand that he is thinking about selling the car... He is not a car guy so he can't work on the car to do general maintenance....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: RC Drown on June 17, 2011, 05:56:04 PM
Bill,

Sorry to hear that you have been under the weather, but glad that you are feeling better.

How about some photos to share with us on the progress of "Walter"
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 05, 2011, 01:08:58 PM
The brief respite that the pain meds gave me from my back problem went away so I had to have an operation on my back... L1-L5 lumbar laminectomy. The operation was a huge success.
My doctor released me for limited physical activities on July 1 so I have been getting the grille trim ready to reinstall. Since the trim has been laying around for over a year I am re-polishing everything before I put the pieces back in place.

Unfortunetly my doctor will not allow me to go for a long car ride until at least six weeks following the surgery so I will not be able to attend the National Summer Meet in Pacific Grove on July 13-16. I was really looking forward to the meet.   

I, which I could accommodate RC's request for pictures of the rebuilding of "Walter".... For some reason the program (s) in my computer do not work well with the format of the POC Bulletin. If I try to post pictures they end up in cyber space, some times Mark steps in an rescues the pictures.. I don't quite understand, I have no problem posting to the other forum's, Ford Barn, EFV8 Club, Buick Club, and a few more.....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: RC Drown on July 05, 2011, 01:53:56 PM
Bill,

I am pleased that your back surgery went well and you are on the road to a full recovery.

Not to worry about the photos, but thanks for thinking of me,
Bob
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Go Fleiter on July 06, 2011, 12:51:09 AM
Best whishes from D?sseldorf!
Hope You recover fast and can take the scrwdriver soon!
Always nice to read Your car stories! Go
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: SD Glenn on July 06, 2011, 12:09:48 PM
Hey Go, Thank you for mentioning that Bill had some good stories about the old cars. I went back to the begining of this post. There is very interesting reading here, keeping me intertained for hours. I would recomend ALL the newbee read some of Bills posts. I am enjoying them very much and can't seem to close down the PC right now. lol  Great posts Bill, and wish you the best of luck with the surgery.
SD Glenn
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 06, 2011, 12:37:09 PM
AH Shucks.... GO & SD Glenn, you guys are very kind to make note about my car stories here on the POC Bulletin. In addition to what I babble about here on the POCB I have for many years  been writing an article I call "Rust In Peace" for the Golden State Region of the POC....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: CHS on July 06, 2011, 02:05:17 PM
It is always GOOD NEWS, to hear someones back surgery went well! It is better news that you will be able to get back to doing what you love, Working on your old Plymouth. I know I am always tinkering around with mine.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 24, 2011, 03:13:18 PM
Good things/Bad things;
I have an appointment with the upholstery shop for Aug. 15 to get the top put on and finish up the interior. I have been able to work for a couple of hours a day getting all of the stainless trim reinstalled after having removed it for the paint repairs.
I finally got all of the trim installed on the grille shell, the center trim had not been installed because I was looking for a good piece to restore... I had acquired a near perfect Plymouth emblem for the center of the grille which finally got installed... The front end looks really great. The '39 grilles and front end have a very "Art Deco" flair to them.
On the bad side.. I started installing the window guide tracts that I rebuilt a couple of years ago.. They have been sitting on the shelve awaiting the day they would be needed.
The right door went right together, the left door was a different story. Some how or another my tracts got mixed up with the "Alabama Car" tracts. The left front tract turned out to be a modified tract for the Alabama Car. The mounts are wrong for my car so I will have to make new mounts to fit the left front of the door... A minor delay.....Bill
 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 04, 2012, 01:03:28 PM
I just finished composing an update to the progress detailing the near completion of 'Walter'... When I attempted to post the article the forum, it would not accepted the article....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 04, 2012, 02:30:49 PM
Well now, my previous posting worked so I will try again.
I was really surprised when I opened this tread to find that I had not added to this topic in almost a year... Hmmm, time goes bye when one is having fun...
During the past several months I have ran into one frustration after another trying to get the window issues solved for 'Walter'... As quickly as I think I have one issue solved, another one jumps up. Each time a problem has arisen, with the window tracts, guide rollers, or the operators, it has fallen on my shoulders to solve the problem because the repair shops I have dealt with either did not have the skills to solve the problem and/or they did not want to be bothered.
As with many issues during the course of the rebuilding of Walter, I have encountered items that are not typical of the average '30 model car.. It would appear that Chrysler followed their own path, which involved a higher standard of engineering. In other words, a car built to a design standard, in lieu of a budget.
The delays in getting the door windows installed and operating has also delayed getting the top and upholstery done, neither of which could be done until the windows were in and working. I finished up the installation of the windows yesterday.
Of course I added to the window problem because I wanted power windows... This was going to be a slam dunk because I had been told by several company's that they had operators that 'would work' in my car... wrong... I ended up having to send my mechanical operators out to have electric ones made using mine as the patterns. I made mention in my 3/10 thread about the great work that Nu-Relics did in making my power window operators.
I have documented the rebuilding and installation of my window assemblies, with several photos and a written text, unfortunately the text and photo's contain more info that what this forum can accept. I am going to forward my info to Lanny @ The Plymouth Bulletin, he might deem the info interesting enough to incorporate it into the Bulletin.
Another issue that I have to deal with in getting Walter finished up.... Chrome Plating!! I had all of the chrome redone on the bumpers, etc., in 2006-07... The car has never spent a night sitting outside, nor has it been driven in bad weather... Since when does California have bad weather? The chrome started to blister and peal on both of my bumpers and guards. Some of the other pieces started showing signs of blistering...
I paid good money for the chrome work to a shop that guaranteed their work, ya sure, what good is a guarantee when the shop goes out of business..
I think a good friend of mine that is also a car guy summed things up pretty well when he said.. "we should have taken up collecting stamps in lieu of cars, stamps were easier to store and in the end achieved a higher value"....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 05, 2012, 01:23:10 PM
Sometimes the cobb webs in my brain are really thick.... I just finished making a comment on the Ford Barn Forum to a question regarding the location and possible decoding of the VIN for a '36 Ford coupe.. I have a '36 Ford coupe which I have owned for 60 years come September... I have been a member of the Early Ford V8 Club since the mid 1970's.
The VIN on my '36 is 324xxx, which in Ford lingo only means that the car was built in late September 1936, the car was in the last couple of thousand vehicles built for the '36 model year.
Now the somewhat strange thing that just dawned on me... The VIN on my '39 Plym conv is 323xxx.... Of course we all know that the VIN for a DPCD vehicle can be traced through Chrysler Historical which will reveal the origins of our cars.
The similarities of the two numbers might no mean much to most people, to me it was a little.... Do, Da, Do, Do (theme from Twilight Zone.)
Maybe I have a thing for numbers... Amongst my interests are old license plates and old chauffeur's, drivers badges... While looking online (eBay) for a YOM plate for a '49 Oldsmobile I am restoring I stumbled into a license plate site for 'Armed Forces in Germany'.... I was stationed in Germany in 1956-58 when I was in the Army, I had a '50 Opel so I looked through the plates listed... Coming upon a set of very nice 1957 plates I paused... The number on the plate caught my eye, ringing a bell in my head... I knew that the AFG plates in Germany were issued by zone, that is why the number on the plate seemed to ring a bell...  I placed a bid on the plates and went about my business.
In a few days I received an email from eBay, I had won the plates.. When the plates arrived I said to myself, 'self', there is something very strange going on here... I went to my photo albums, looking for the pix I had taken in and around Fulda, Germany.. Finding some pix of my '50 Opel I almost fell over, the number on the plate I had just received from eBay was only ten digits higher than the plates on my Opel.... Since the U.S. Army Provost Marshall traveled from post to post issuing license plates, the soldier that had bought the plates that I had just purchased, was standing in the same line, on the same day as I was.... More Twilight Zone theme is in order....Bill   
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Go Fleiter on July 05, 2012, 06:28:06 PM
I rfemember a couple of years ago,  You  and some more of this forum were among those who kept our freedom and let this country  ( and Europe)
unite again. Thank You so much! We rember USA?s engagement in Berlin and here in Europe

Well, uniting was very expensive, and Europe will cost even more.
But a war, anyhow, costs everything.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 06, 2012, 05:54:54 PM
Thank you Go for your kind thoughts... I believe I have mentioned before that I have very fond memories of the time I spent in Germany....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on July 22, 2012, 11:59:23 AM
This is a little off topic from my usual comments about the '39 Plymouth's, but not really....
I have been invited to show my '39 Plym at a museum in Paso Robles, CA that features World War II aircraft and WWII vehicles and other items. This is a special fund raising promotion featuring the showing of WWII War Birds... A few of which are; A P38, P51 Mustang, B25.. and several more. They want to have cars of the late '30's, early '40's era stationed in and near the aircraft. The special showing is the last weekend of September... 28th, 29th & 30th..
Through the years I have gathered up several auto related items from the WWII era.... ie; gas rationing stamps and decals for the windshield.... I think I have seen a picture/Mag Ad that shows a '39/40 Plym convertible sitting next to a WWII aircraft... I have one showing a '42 Studebaker sitting next to a P38.
If anyone has a picture, Mag Ad showing a '39. 40, 41 Plym convertible sitting next to a military aircraft, I would really appreciate a copy of same..
A pix/Ad showing a '40/41 Plym staff car in an aircraft setting would be helpful also... I know where there is an unrestored '41 Plym staff car that we are trying to buy for the museum.
This special showing of WWII aircraft will be attended by people/groups from all over the U.S. many of which will fly in, in their restored WWII aircraft...
Again, any pix help will be greatly appreciated by a friend of mine that works at the museum who has been assigned the task of securing the antic automobiles....Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: furylee on July 23, 2012, 08:49:23 AM
Pretty sure this is a 41. Lifted from a thread on the HAMB.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: RC Drown on July 28, 2012, 10:10:00 AM
Bill, here is an ad from 1944 showing the duribilty of the 1940 Plymouth with an air plane in the back ground.  I had to take a photo of it as my copier isn't big enough to make a copy.

Hope this helps you out somewhat,
Bob
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 06, 2012, 01:51:24 PM
I have not been very active on the POC forum for the last few months because of an unforeseen event in my life..
As Bette Davis said... "Hang it going to be a bumpy ride"... In early 2011 the condition of my back had become unbearable.. I needed extensive back surgery.. Modern medicine requires many tests prior to surgery.. During the course of a lung xray an item of concern was noted.. Further tests where ordered... Following many tests it was determined that the item was non malignant, however, it should be monitored.. Every four months I went in for followup tests... Everything was good to go..
During the course of a test in August 2012, it was noted that the item had changed. A pet scan in early September lite up like a Christmas tree in my lung and lymph nodes...
What to do? Radiation/Chemo?... Hmmm? Because the "growth" had changed so quickly and appeared in my lymph nodes, surgery was suggested.. My family and I conferred, we decided that surgery was the best answer.... Get the little buggers out of there..
I under went lung and lymph node surgery on October 3.. A 6 cm section was removed from my lung, smaller sections of the lymph nodes were removed...I am very happy to report that the growths were benign... Probably the result of an old infection or occupational exposure... The doctors told me I was one lucky guy, they said I was in the 5% group that escapes cancerous growths... A free pass to go and enjoy life.
I have been recovering very rapidly.. For the past several days I have been able to work on my Plym for a few hours each day.... Life is good.... Bill      
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: RC Drown on November 06, 2012, 01:59:01 PM
Bill,

I am so pleased that it all worked out and there was no cancer, and yes, life is good,

Bob
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Go Fleiter on November 08, 2012, 08:31:58 AM
nice news! You both enjoy life, families and hobbies more now!

Greetings from D?sseldorf!
Go
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Jim Benjaminson on November 08, 2012, 04:24:10 PM
Bill - glad to hear your reports were good.  Had a message the other day from Bob Drown who is fighting mouth cancer - good to hear from him - and I'm waiting to hear from my work partner who's X-rays show a mass on his lungs.  He'd gone through a bout of thyroid cancer earlier.  They took a biopsy but no results yet from this setback......
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on November 27, 2012, 01:29:36 PM
For the last few weeks I have been able to work on my '39 Plym, after a hiatus of almost a year and a half.. The car had paint issues that I fought with the painter about for all most two years. He finally agreed to fix the issues, then screwed things up all most as bad as the original.. When I got the car back my attitude was not in sink with the Plym, I put it away in it's garage..
I got somethings back together on the car in the months prior to my lung surgery, since the first of November I have been able to work on the car for several hours every day.. Last week I was able to light the car up and take it for a spin.. I still don't have a top on the car, but I do have windows now that roll up and down at the touch of the switch.
I had the car sitting in the driveway wiping it off.. I have a new neighbor who came out to get her mail.. She had never seem my Plym, she has only lived next door for just shy of a year.
I should add that the neighbor is in her early forties, an attractive (single) brunette. Her and her mother bought the house, the mother is confined to a wheelchair, blended household to cut down on expenses..
Many years ago one of my daughters asked me what was the point in building the Plymouth.. I told her very simple.. I was going to put the top down and go out looking for "chicks" that wanted to ride in a neat car... My daughter said... Ya sure... Little did she know.
Anyway, the neighbor lady "Dawn" asked me if I was going to take the car out for a ride, I said I was as soon as I finished wiping it off.. Batting her eyes, as girls can do so well she asked.. I sure would like to ride in that car... Of course my response was to hit the remote door opener, telling the lady to step right in..
It was a beautiful day in Southern Cal, we went on a nice ride for almost a half hour.. A pretty lady makes a nice accessory to any car, especially a '39 Plymouth conv. coupe...
Life IS REALLY GOOD....Bill   
 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: SD Glenn on November 27, 2012, 10:34:29 PM
Glad you're back Bill.
You realize that the lady wants your car Bill, look out. lol
Take care,
SDGlenn
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Go Fleiter on November 28, 2012, 03:11:02 PM
Glenn, that is what my wife sais to me (61 Yrs old)too, when italian girls whistled at me (?) while in Holidays.

They are more enthusiastic as ours here. Ours are too cool to show reaction usually...
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 12, 2013, 05:36:15 PM
The new year is now twelve days old... Hopefully everyone has recovered from to much partying bringing in the new year... A good friend of mine always maintained that the only sure cure for a hangover was three days..
I am somewhat sitting on pins and needles, I had an appointment with the upholstery shop to get the top on the car, and finish up the upholstery work.. My appointment has been set back ten days because a '53 Merc convertible had a lot of problems that needed to be corrected..
As many of the "citizens here on PB might recall, I have been working on the car since 1998.. During all of the years since work was started on the car there has been great progress made, only to run into problems which almost derailed the project.. I do have to admit that the car is a real pleasure to drive, even with no top now that the side windows are in the car, and they are operational.. I guess I should not rub in Southern California's great weather... AH what the heck, even this time of the year is "topless" weather.... Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 24, 2013, 12:34:24 PM
After a three months wait, my 39 Plym is finally in the upholstery shop to get the interior finished and the top put on.. I guess I should have found another shop, however, there was one big problem.. I had purchased all of the material for the top and enough leather for the interior along with a new back window and other supplies, all of which were being stored at the shop that was going to do the work.. Upholstery, body-fender/ paint shops all fit into the same category.. Unreliable at the best. Of course, anyone that has ever dealt with a convertible knows full well that good top makers are few and far between..
I made a posting to the "Parts & Paper thread here on the POC Forum a little while ago announcing that I was going to start selling off my excess '39 Plym parts.. Most of the parts I have are for the conv. coupes only, the left window assembly I have will fit the '38-39 conv. coupe.. A member of the POC has been telling me for two years that he was going to buy the window assembly... Nada, no show, no money, time to up anchor and move on...
When I was in the early phases of restoring my '39, I had found out that Briggs Manufacturing also built most of the Ford conv coupe bodies during the 1930's.. Research showed that many of the parts were very similar.. I purchased windows for a '36-39 Ford conv. coupe because I had been told the were the same a the Plym windows. Upon receipt of the windows I found they were similar, not the same.. I tried to sell the Ford windows several times, to no avail.. I recently ran into a guy I have known for years that has noting but '36-40 Ford conv's, I told him I had a left window assembly for a '36-39 Ford conv. He was in the process fo restoring a '39 Ford conv. cpe.. I made his day, sold him the window assembly I had...  Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Go Fleiter on March 25, 2013, 02:23:16 AM
Bill, good top makers are rare here too!
They fitted my new top too tight at the rear.
After one Year it began to loosen.
They had to let it a bit longer and did so with a stripe, which seemed nice to me.
one more year later they had to redo: they hadn?t made it longer, they just did hide the crack of the canvas. And here and there they darnaged the varnisch too.
The third time I stood besides: now it is long enough, but it undulates a bit when closed (3. pic). The original roof did the same.
Well, my top linkage does not allow the canvas to be nicely stretched when closed: it needs to be a bit longer or it will break when open.

Greetings from D?sseldorf, 32 degr. F !
Go
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on March 25, 2013, 11:54:58 AM
The top material that we are using on my '39 is actually the material for a Mercedes top in lieu of the more common canvas type of material.. I opted for the Mercedes type of fabric because it is a heavier fabric, and has a nicely finished back side. The color of the fabric is a dark tan to blend in with the saddle brown leather and the British Racing Green paint.
I know, my '39 is a Plymouth, not a Mercedes, but then again, Mercedes owned Chrysler for several years, so it's all in the family..
Go,.. It looks like your top shop tried their best to correct "their mistake" on your top, of course if they would have done the job right the first time, there would have been no need to redo the work... I still hear my father telling me... " If you can't find the time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find the time to redo the job?".... Bill   
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Go Fleiter on March 26, 2013, 03:08:12 PM
Mercedes on most convertibles uses "Sonnenland" multiple layer heavy quality.
I didn?t want at first because I liked the old simple fabric very much.
As work costs were most of the top price, they convinced me to order Sonnenland.
It is really a fine quality, 3 years old it has nearly the color and patina of the old one.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on April 09, 2013, 12:20:42 PM
Now that I am closer to the end of the restoration on my '39, finishing up the upholstery and putting the convertible top on, a whole new set of problems have cropped up.
We took the belt-line tack strip off of the body prior to doing the paint work.. Did not want yuck bleeding out from under the metal tack strip and thereby staining the paint and/or top material..
Nothing on a DCPD car is simple.. The original tack strip material is some kind of a treated paper like material.. Of course after being exposed to the elements for over 60 years the material was junk. It took some doing to open the crimped edges of the channel up to remove the old material. It was a welcomed surprise to find that the steel channel was in good shape, only requiring bead blasting and paint. I found a plastic tack strip material, 3/16 x 3/4, installed it into the channel and crimped the edge over using a body hammer backed up with an anvil. I installed the restored strip back on the body using 3/16"x 1/2 pop rivets...
The rumble seat cushions have been put away since 1998, they still had fabric on them.. Removing the fabric revealed that the most of the seat assembly was badly rusted out from exposure to water that infiltrates into the rumble area as a result of the poor drainage that is typical of all rumble seat equipped vehicles.
Checking with several sources drew a blank for new cushions.. Doing several searches on the internet finally turned up Snyder's Antique Auto Parts in Springfield, Ohio.. Snyder's has a seat spring department.. Naturally there main business is Ford, A's and V8's.. Since the rumble area in the Plymouths is very similar to the '35-39 Fords, my weather seals are for a '35-39 Ford rumble seat.. I figured I could use the Ford springs.... Wrong again, close but no cookie..
I am shipping my spring cushions to Snyder's so they can use them as patterns to make new ones for my car.. I have instructed Snyder's to hang onto my cushions for use as templates in-case someone else needs new seats for a '37-39 DCPD vehicle.. I know of three people around the country, and one in Australia that are currently restoring '38-39 Plym rumble seat vehicles..
I am having to pay a setup charge for my cushions because Snyder's has never seen a '37-39 DCPD rumble seat.. They have made front/rear seat spring assemblies.. The shop foreman made mention to me that the front seat for a '39 is as large as a small couch.. I agree.. They kind of over power the whole front seat area, especially in the front, that's why I discarded my front seat in favor of buckets. 
I could have opted to try and adapt something from another vehicle for use in the rumble area, that is what my upholster suggested, I passed on the lame suggestions, with all the money and time I have wrapped up in the restoration of my car, this is not the time to cut corners.... Bill
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on June 14, 2013, 11:57:55 AM
I wish that I could report that the interior and convertible top on my Plym is done and that I could finally enjoy an "all weather car"... Wrong.. My car has been in the upholstery shop since early March, progress has been made, however, about like "molasses in January"..
For the life of me I cannot understand why body men and upholsters have such terrible work habits.. I have always thought that body/paint men sniffed to much paint fumes, maybe the glue that upholsters use has the same effect..
I threatened to take my car out of the upholstery shop in early May because of no progress.. I was assured that I would see great progress in the following weeks.. I did for about two weeks, then everything stopped while a set of dinning room chairs was recovered with natural steer hide... Yes.. with the hair and all of the brown/white patterns still on the hides...
I have to admit that the man is really doing a nice job.. He uses 1/8" black ABS panels for all of his backing, this will insure that moisture will not infiltrate into the backing material, like the old paper based backing material, which causes the panels to warp, etc., over time.
I covered the entire floor pan and body panels with "Road-Kill" sound deadening material, prior to the start of the upholstery work...
I decided last week that life is to short to get all up tight about the lack of progress... After all it's taken fourteen years to get the car to the point it is, whats a few more weeks.... Bill 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on April 22, 2017, 12:34:01 PM
I recently made a contribution to the forum that I was "Back" from my unplanned absence from the plymouth bulletin.
My last addition to this topic left off with the '39 awaiting completion of the upholstery and top, both of which are now done.
I am going to make additions to my topic about the '39 Plym Conv. Coupe covering the rebuilding of the car and the nuances associated with that process: Wm.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Go Fleiter on May 02, 2017, 03:06:46 PM
nice to see You back.
This forum lost nearly all of its traffic because of slowing down too much.
All of the members are gione to Face book or other Ply sites.
I don?t like both alternatives.
And nice to see Your 39 beauty again!
Greetings from D?sseldorf!
Go
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: RC Drown on May 03, 2017, 11:44:25 AM
Go, face book is safe enough and it gets lots of use my friend, the POC site there is fantastic,  you are missing out on a lot by not being on the POC face book page, take my word for it

I think you should reconsider my friend,
Bob
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: TodFitch on May 03, 2017, 12:02:48 PM
Go, face book is safe enough and it gets lots of use my friend, the POC site there is fantastic,  you are missing out on a lot by not being on the POC face book page, take my word for it

I think you should reconsider my friend,
Bob

Don't do Facebook and I am trying to avoid Google, etc. I feel no need to volunteer any more information than I have to about myself to companies whose business model is basically for for profit spying.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on May 22, 2017, 03:04:57 PM
I have to agree with GO' and Todd about Facebook, it is just to public and open for me.. Because of my g kids, and a few friends, I am on FB, however I delete most of the posting there-in because I don't care for all of the political nonsense, etc.
The photo program part of FB is a nice feature, however, since the speed on the POC has been improved, I can now post pix to the POC without having to go through a long drawn out process.. Wm 
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on August 27, 2018, 03:30:09 PM
Low and behold I was able to back track and found my 39 Plym Conv. Coupe topic.  I'll have to see if I can print off the topic so I can ad it to my hard files. Wm
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on September 02, 2018, 12:11:36 PM
Looking back through my early postings to this topic I noted that there are hardly any pix attached to any of my comments. Since the forum is now a lot more user friendly I think I'll up-date things a bit.
The attached pix was taken when I found the '39 sitting in an open field in Montana where it had sat for over 38 years.. I must have been nuts to gather that car up, most of my friends were. Wm
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on September 02, 2018, 12:21:03 PM
39 Plym being retrieved from the open field in '96..Wm
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on September 13, 2018, 11:56:33 AM
A tread was recently started on the POC Facebook forum about a 38 Plym conv cpe that the owner is looking for parts to restore the car. He really has his work cut out for him.. The body on the '38 is in far worst shape than mine was.. Wm.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: Wm Steed on January 14, 2019, 02:18:26 PM
I just noted that a notation to "report this post" and remove, has recently been added to my recent postings to this topic.. What is going on, did I step on someones toes?... Wm.
Title: Re: 39 Plym. Conv. Coupe
Post by: TodFitch on January 14, 2019, 03:58:57 PM
I think that is on all posts now. Gives a person a button to press if they become upset with your posting for some reason. I'm not a moderator here so I don't know exactly what happens if the button is pressed. But with the traffic on this forum and the lack, so far, of animosity displayed by anyone here, it would surprise me if the "report this post" button has been used much.