This computer thing, the internet and ebay can be pretty tricky. >:( I have 31 Plymouth PA locked into my ebay favorites, watching it on a daily basis. The listing for the windshield frame did not come up on my radar screen because of how the listing was written... Plymouth-PA-Windshield-Frame 1931-1932. From a rational point of view, since my favorite listing says 31 Plymouth PA, you would have thought that the computers would have sorted that out.... But then,... that would require rational thinking by the computers, which as we all to well know, a computer can't do....Bill

A PA windshield frame just sold on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Plymouth-PA-Windshield-Frame-1931-1932_W0QQitemZ110461425467QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b803973b

It has been over a year since I made a posting to this topic... my oh my, time does go racing by when a person is having fun....

I guess patience does pay off... One of the guys I contacted over a year ago about some fenders for the PA finally responded to my requests for a price for the fenders. He had sent me pic's almost a year ago, then he fell silent. We agreed on a price, however it took him another four months to come up with a shipping price. The shipping cost from Mich. to CA for the front/rear fenders was twice the purchase amount... Hmmm? ??? now what to do.

I finally made a deal with the guy that had the fenders, that I would pay him half the asking price, then I would see if I could find someone within the old car community that could, or would, pick the fenders up for me. In August one of my car buddies told me that he was going to take a big trip with his RV to the Great Lakes in September, October to see the fall colors...

I sheepishly got a grin on my face and asked my friend if he could, or would, pick up the fenders for me? My friend said he would be glad to pick the fenders up for me.

The fenders were picked up in late September, my friend hauled them from Mich. to Florida, then west to Texas and then to CA, arriving home last week. My friends wife was a little upset about them picking up the fenders, not so much because of the space they took up in their truck, she was upset because my friend bought $800. worth of parts for his projects from the guy that had the fenders.

While I was waiting for fenders, I was able to pickup several other parts for the PA.... I found a visor for the PA on a Desoto body in Idaho and I picked up the spare tire mount on ebay. I still need a windshield frame and hinge assembly, and I need a pair of frame covers that cover the frame above the running boards....Bill

Bill,

I also met Patrick a year ago this past summer when He bought a Plymouth doodle bug from a friend of mine

I know Patrick quite well... he has been keeping his eyes pealed for some fenders and other parts I need for the PA.
If you read my earlier posts to this topic you will note that I met up with Patrick in Rapid City in the fall of '07 to exchange some Plym parts with him
Thank you for the tip anyway...Bill

Bill,

Contact Patrick Dolan, he may be able to help you locate fenders

I did not realize it had been so long since I posted an update to the '31 PA topic.

I have been busy trying to round up a set of fenders, front/rear. During the past few months I have located two sets of fenders that were repairable. Prices were agreed on and it was agreed that I would send the money as soon as shipping charges were determined. I never heard another peep from either of the two guys, I have sent them emails to no avail..... Hmmmm? ??? either I missed something or the sellers found someone who was willing to pay a higher price.

I recently found another set of fenders for the PA, the guy that had them sent me plenty of pictures, the fenders needed a lot of help, but they were repairable. I asked for a price..... In almost two months I have heard nothing more from the guy.

So here I am, still in need of fenders. If anyone has front/rear fenders for a PA that they would want to part with, please ontact me....Bill

My 31 Plym has not really fallen off the radar, even tho it might seem that way. I have been slowly gathering parts for it. I picked up a nice set of head lights a couple of months ago. I need  front fender braces and the frame covers above the running boards. I am also in the market for a decent set of rear fenders.

The weather is starting to get better so I will be starting the project of mounting the body I got in Moses Lake, WA. I have to change the fire walls, however, I don't think that it will be a big deal. We have calculated that by drilling out the spot welds, it should be pretty easy to change the fire walls.

Keep me and the PA in mind if you run into any PA body parts....Bill   

During the past month things have really been shaping up with my PA...
While scanning through ebay a couple of weeks ago I noticed a listing for some parts for a PA that might be of use to me. I sent an email to the listing party asking a few questions about the item he had listed..... Wha-La! it turned out that he was loaded with parts for a 2dr sdn that he had been working on for over ten years. I was able to purchase a pair of front fenders, running board brackets, frame aprons and found a source for some window moldings that I am missing.

I left Ventura on October 17 on a road trip to Rapid City, SD. The purpose of the trip was to transport the chassis and a bunch of parts for a '28 Plym to a fellow club member from Indiana. Patrick had purchased the '28 in So Cal from a fellow that only wanted the body for a Street Rod. Time would not permit Patrick to pick up the '28 so I picked it up for him, then I stored it for over two months waiting for him to come get it.

Since I like to go on road trips in the fall, we arranged to meet at Moores Auto Salvage in Rapid City. I have written about Moores before here on the POC-DB, in my humble opinion Moores is the Valhala of old DPCD cars. I was at Moores in July on our summer trip to Mount Rushmore, however, I was only able to stay for about  four hours, this time we stayed two days....Tell me have you ever spent the night in a wrecking yard? ;D Since I had my motor home I had them lock me in for the night, that way we could take our time looking and taking pictures. My over night stay cost me almost $3,000., I purchased a '49 Olds 2dr fst back, a bunch of parts for a '39 Dodge coupe which a friend of mine is working on plus parts for my PA.

It turned out to be a very good deal delivering the '28 and meeting up with Patrick, he is an authority on the '30-'31 Plyms so as we walked the yard and searched through piles of rusty tin, Patrick would point out to me pieces and parts that I would need for my PA. Tell when the last time you saw a complete window shade for a PA sitting  amons't parts for a '40 Chevy and other assorted makes? While looking through a pile of old wire wheels we found two more five lug wheels for a PA.

I still need some parts for the PA but the list is getting shorter every day....Bill

I returned from a road trip to Moses Lake WA to pick up the 2dr body for the 31 PA yesterday.  I have mentioned in earlier postings that the body I found in Moses Lake is actually a late 30 U which in reality is the same as a PA with the exception of a few items, the biggest being the firewall pattern.

Since I was on the road I swang over into Eastern Idaho and piicked up the 31 PA which I had been keeping in Idaho until I found the time and space to bring it home to California. We had to reload my trailer to get the 31 PA chassis and it's new body into the trailer so we put the body onto the 31 PA, stacking all of the fenders and misc sheet metal I got with the body into the body.. To add to this collection I added a complete 31 PA chassis with both the front and rear axel assemblies, which we stood up on edge along side the PA.

Not being content to bring home a partial load, I bought a '24 Dodge open touring body. Since the Dodge would not fit into the the trailer in one piece we had to cut it across  the rear door sills to shorten it up, stacking the front half into the rear portion. It's a good thing that the Dodge has four doors in lieu of the two doors the Ford T touring's had.

In accessiing the problem of the firewall difference in the 30 U & 31 PA, I have come to the conclusion that I will not cut the cowls to add the "U" body to the "PA", it will be much easier to swap the PA firewall and dash into the U body. I will have to get a PA visor, however, since the visor is missing from the "U" body, I needed to find a visor anyway.

I wonder??? We seem to get so attached to automobiles, as if they actual have feelings. Do you think it is possible that the PA is feeling better now that it has a complete body sitting on it, covering up it's private parts that were exposed to the eliments for so many years?....Bill   8)

Bill, Be sure to get your info to Earl Buton as well. He keeps a close tab on all known 4 cylinders in and out of the club. It helps to ID cars that are incorrect, cloned, or way off with serials and build dates. It's a private list, but he can tell you when a car does not "fit in" to production. His e-mail is in the officers directory of your bulletin.

Jim B,
Would it be possible for you to document the "31 PA I have.. The serial number is 1621020, body #4484. The body number plate is not readable except for the stamped numbers. There are no number plates on the 2 dr body. The 2 dr sdn body I bought in Moses Lake is the same color as the PA I bought, a faded out green.  I have been told by the fellow I bought the PA from that it was a 2 dr sdn before the body was cut off to make in into a "saw car".....Bill

The car Gods smiled on me, I bought the 2dr sdn body in Washington. The body needs a little help, pretty rough but there is very liittle rust out. The rear fenders are a little rough so I might try to find a replacement set. The visor is missing so I still need to find one of those.

The body turned out to be a '30 but it is a late '30 with the oval rear window. The re-inforcing pattern on the firewall is different from a '31 PA so I will have to cut the body loose at the windshield posts so I can use my cowl which has all the numbers and a '31 dash. On a second thought..... I might just change the firewall, it would appear that the dash plates will come out by just removing some screws....Bill

With the help of Patrick D., a 2dr. sdn body has been located in Washington. It looks very promiseing. 
I am heading out on cross country trip with my rolling hotel, up to S. Dakota (Mt. Rushmore) then east to Minn, returning to my daughters place in Montana and then west to Seattle. This trip will put me right through the town in Washington where the 31 PA body is located.

I received a set of tires for the PA from Bill J., he shipped them to me for the shipping charges.

In the hope that I am not repeating myself..... The POC group and the fellows that contribute to this forum are the best. I have belonged to the Early Ford V8 club for over twenty-five years, I am almost as active on their Forum as I am on the POC. I am also active on the Buick Owners Forum from time to time because of a '40 Buick I have. The difference between the three groups is like night and day. One big difference is that  you don't have to be a registered member on the Ford site to make a posting to their forum.

So....... what am I trying to say here?  I guess it boils down to a big...... thank you.... to all of you that are helping me get another  Chrysler product back on the road....Bill

Hey Bil,l check out www.rootlieb.com/home. Click on model a speedster kit. give you any ideas? Bill james

I was taking a break from my nornal weekend chores today and started to look through some old car magazines I have. As if it was an omen, I encountered several pictures and article covering some old "speedsters". Speedster's  were never my thing, but I have to admit that the pretty pictures got me to thinking.
Maybe a '31 Plym speedster with that big "high output" 4 banger would be something. After all, Chrysler claimed in their ad's that the Plym PA was "The Four Cylinder That Runs Like An Eight" or "The Power Of An Eight, The Economy Of A Four Cylinder".

It is a fact that not all speedsters were Ford based vehicles. A friend of mine is recreating an early race car that was powered by a Chevy 4 banger. Soooo... Lets see, I need a roadster body or do I just cut off whats left of the windshield posts and graft in the rear portion of a cut down body. A wind screen would be easy to fabricate. A few modifications to the engine, probably only in the carburation, exhaust and ignition, paint the body bright red and stencil a  number on the grille. There you have it a race ready car for about a dollar three eighty..... Bill

Ok Tod..... Your hypothesis sounds good, however, I don't think it will hold much water..... Why?...... here's my theory....

In comparision, the production figures for 1931/32 are simular, it is true that fewer '32's were built because of the deepening depression, however, the production numbers show that approximately half as many 2dr sdn's compared to 4 dr. sdn's were built, 23,038 vs 49,465 for 1931 and 13,023 vs 38,036 for 1932. I would think that the 2dr sdn's were not popular with the family man inspite of the fact that the 2dr listed for $60.00 less than the 4dr. The constant moving of the seats to allow the kids to get in the back seat would be an inconvenience that most drivers of the day would not put up with.

I would think that the 2dr's were very popular with the business group, ie; $60.00 savings per vehicle can add up to a lot of money. The rear seat area provides a lot of weather tight  storeage area for merchandice and in a pinch the passenger seat could be rigged to lay flat providing a nice sleeping area for a traveling salesman. That is if the farmer did not invite the salesman to spend the night and/or the farmers daughter was two bag ugly ;D
Several manufactures offered conversions to transform a 2dr sdn into a "Doctors Car" by eliminating the passenger seat, replaces it with a gurney so the "Country Doctor" could transport the patient, if needed, when making house calls.

When I was in my teens and early twenty's I and several of my friends had 2dr sdn's. We fixed them up in the style of the times, skirts, spot lights and twice pipes. As a general rule we bought them because they were cheap, had a large back seat and looked neat when fixed up. I still like 2dr's, I currently have a '53 Pontiac Chieftian 2dr....Bill

At least for 1933, the number of surviving two door sedans is quite low compared to coupes, four door sedans, or even convertibles.

My hypothesis is that: Two door sedans were typically purchased by families with small children because the needed the back seat but did not want the kids to be playing with door handles. So the two door sedans were the station wagon/minivan of the day. This lead to two aspects that decreased the survival of the cars: 1) The kids probably were pretty hard on the back of the car so they were junked sooner. 2) Who the heck would want to restore the equivalent of a "minivan" when a coupe or a roadster would be fun and a four door would be practical, so use the junk yard parts from the two door sedans to restore the others.

And maybe it is just 1933 where the two door sedans are pretty rare and I am just full of it.  8)

After I wrote "Tim Conway" the fog in my brain cleared a little and I remembered that it was  Arte ????? ("Something") that used the line "Veerry Inteerreesting" when he did his pop-up scene with the Geman helment and glasses on...... I knew it would not take long for someone to correct me, filling in the last name which I could not come up with.

I tend to feel that a 2dr sdn body would be nice, especially if it turns out that the car was originally a 2dr..  In spite of the low production numbers for the PA coupes, I have encountered three coupe bodies since I started looking for a body for the car.  I have also found four sedan bodies.
For me..... the station wagon idea is out of the question, the cost to do such a project would far excede the value of the vehicle....Bill 

I'm not familiar with Murray making any bodies for the 31 Plymouth's, just Bud & Briggs.  Actually the Budd bodies were supplied by Dodge (two door sedans and coupes).  Dodge/Budd continued to build the coupe and two door bodies for many years.  Kercheval also got into the act some years - that was owned by Chrysler.  Not sure if Kercheval made any 31 bodies or not.  I can document '33 bodies.  Kercheval was body supplier to DeSoto in 1938 at least.....

Actually, the "very interesting" line was Arte Johnson's  ;-)

May not be much help but I know Briggs, Murray and Budd bodies for Model A differed from each other as well as from Ford-built bodies - may have been the same for Plymouth.

I vote for the station wagon or 2-door body.

"Verryy intereesting"... as Tim Conway used to say on the old Laugh In Show..
In looking for a '31 Plym body for my "chassis", of the four bodies I have resently found, three of them have completely different patterns to the re-inforcing channels that are stamped into the firewall. As I have reported earlier, I have been told that three manufacures, Briggs, Budd, and Murray made bodies for the '31 PA's. It would seem that the bodies would be consistant and follow Chrysler's designs, or could it be that the firewall pattern changes are simply engineering inprovements  ???....Bill

I have made progress with my quest to get the '31 Plym back together. One of the POC members brought a wheel for the '31 with him when he came from his home in the mid-west to the POC Nationals in Santa Maria... Thank you again Patrick

I have had a couple of offers for some used tires/tubes for the car so I can make it a roller. One of the guys is here in California so I took him up on his offer. He has since decided to hold off on the purchase of new tires so I will go to the second offer which will envolve shipping the tires across the country.

Several bodies have turned up on ebay resently. A sedan body in Oregon was cheap but in very poor condition so I passed on it. Currently there is a coupe listed on ebay that claims to be a 31 Plym, which it is not. Looks more like a DeSoto.... It is in very poor condition, the trunk area has been cut away, probably to make it into a truck many years ago.  Hmmmmm. I wonder how close the DeSoto and/or Dodge fenders would be to a Plym. I have been told that the '31 Plym roadsters used the DeSoto body. I have also been told that there are a lot of variations in '31 PA's depending on who made the body, be it Briggs, Buddor Murray. All of the pictures I have seen of the '31 PA's show the oval rear window, yet it seems that some did not have the oval rear window.

I would still like to find a 2 dr. sdn body so I could return the vehicle back to it's original configuration.... Bill

Bill

Whatever you decide the decision is yours. But for my two cents I hope you go back the original. Good luck and I am glad you have more time to work on your car than I do mine. I was hoping to be ready for Tulsa but I gave up on that already.

Dennis

Several of my friends have suggested that I rebuild the car as a station wagon or a speedster. I guess a station wagon might be alright inspite of the fact that there were non built by Crysler. The speedster idea is interesting and possibly would be the least costly, however, I think the speedster fad was prettty much over by 1931. I also can't quite see a '31 Plym as a fenderless high boy hot rod.......... Hmmm.... since the '31 Plym four banger was 196 CI and 56 hp at 2,800 rpm,.... maybe... ???

I was talking to the fellow in Idaho a few days ago that I purchased the vehicle from. He told me that he could remember the car being driven around Salmon, Idaho many years ago and that the car was originally a 2 dr sdn with fender mounted spares.  The mounts for the right hand spare are still on the cowl and frame. All of the body and serial number plates are still attached to the cowl in the correct places. The engine is correct for the car with the proper PA number stamped into the block.

I know the '31 Plym will never be a high dollar vehicle but I can't help but think that you don't see them every day of the week so I am going to try to rebody it.....Bill

Bill,

Congratulations on your purchase.? I must admit that you have a challenge ahead of you.? A P-Bucket would be easier then a full restoration but Carla is right in that the possibilities could be endless.

Good luck and please keep us informed of your progress.? I like the Avatar but I am a little cross-eyed trying to take a good look at your newly acquired Plymouth.

Chet?

I saw that same 31 Coupe body for sale. $2,400 was maybe tough to swallow, but if it was a Ford coupe body it probably would've sold or went for more. In the end it really wasn't that bad of a deal. I know it didn't sell. You could maybe get a hold of seller and possibly make a deal on it.
I think I also know about that 31 4 door also. If it's the same car, then I'm the one who bought it.

 ::)wow, what an opportunity! I've been dreaming of finding an old Plymouth chassis like yours to play with. my idea is to build a speedster, ala model T, or a Plymouth powered lakester type race car. I can just see a full race 6 cylender plymouth with a fined al. head duel carbs and cast iorn headers. man that thing would sound sweet! Do you think a guy could go 100 miles an hour through the timers at Bonneville? Anyway, have fun with it, Bill

Hi, Bill,

It seems to me as tho you've a wonderful opportunity to build a really 'special' car.

Imagine, for a moment, that you're an executive with Chrysler Corp. at the time when this car was new, and you wanted a station wagon for use at your 'summer home' at the lake. You could get a new Ford station wagon 'off the shelf', but that would be the wrong image......so you had a new 'chassis' delivered, and now you're planning to have one of the custom body builders make up the station wagon body for you.....but you want a really elegant one with a higher quality of hardwoods and more 'art deco-ish' designed details than those commonly built for Ford chassis, a suitable image for your position with Chrysler.

(some thirty-odd years ago, I had the chance to buy, rather cheaply, an elegantly designed/built custom station wagon on '34 Dodge chassis.....but it had been allowed to deteriorate until it needed to be completely re-wooded......at that time, I had neither the time or spare $ for such a project....but, oh, my, that one had been such a nice car when new)

Seriously, there are a number of custom body builders these  days, who make a speciality of high quality hardwood custom station wagon bodies,built as they were done in the '30's.....do some sketching, and talk with some of them......having a custom 'one of a kind' handmade car would be something very few people ever get to do.

cheers

Carla

I guess I have gone off the deep end again. Not learning anything from my experiense's in trying to resurect a '39 Plym conv coupe that had sat in an open field in Montana for over thirty-eight years, I have recently purchased a 31 Plymouth PA that I found in Idaho,  as you can tell from the picture in my new avatar, it needs a little help. As the picture of the PA is reviewed you will note that the majority of the body is missing from the cowl back. Everything from the cowl forward, and the chassis is complete. The body was cut off of the vehicle many years ago to make the vehicle into a "saw car", that being a piece of equipment that could be towed from site to site to cut trees into fire wood. When I bought the PA I was told that it was still sawing wood up to three or four years ago. The engine ,etc., is so complete it appears that with a battery and some fuel the engine would fire right up. 

I was talking to the fellow in Idaho that I purchased the vehicle from the other day, he told me that he could remember back many years ago when the vehicle was still a complete car and driven around Salmon, Idaho by an old man.  Lee said that it was originally a 2dr sdn with fender mounted spares. The mounting bracket for the right spare tire is still on the cowl.

Several days ago I started a topic on  Parts & Paper requesting help in locating used tires for the vehicle so I could get the wire wheels up off the ground. My posting produced two replys one of which was for a complete set of six tires, tubes and rim liners.

I am now looking for a replacement body for the car. I am hoping to find a 2 dr. sdn or a coupe. Recently there was a 31 PA coupe body only on ebay, the fellow wanted $2,400 which I thought was a little steep for just a body. I could have gotten a '31 4dr, complete with the fenders for $275. in February, problem was the body was in South Dakota  and it was February.  I have a line on a coupe body in Idaho which is complete with all the fenders.

How do you like the new avatar Mark created for me? I sent Mark an email telling him I wanted to start a new topic about my '31 PA and would like a avatar that featured the PA, however, I also wanted to keep my 39 Plym avatar. Mark combined the picture of the PA with my '39 making one Avatar that would work on either topic..... pretty neat....., thank you Mark...Bill