1940 Sedan Delivery -- original or modified?

[Jim Benjaminson]

Definately 1941 P11 Deluxe

[kevinshea]

back to the car --

have the serial # 15072693 (pass side A pillar) and the body tag 8202855 (firewall) - these are not mis typed

Cleaned out the front and found mounts for a pass side bucket seat. The toeboards are not wooden but they are a single piece of sheet metal that is bolted in place (making it removeable). Floors are missing rocker to rocker but only for about 12-15" Transverse body framing brackets behind the driver seat appear to be wooden, like 3X3s.

Need to determine: 1. if rocker panels can be used from another vehicle. 2. if the front doors are the same as anything else. 3. if the running boards are the same as anything else.

If have spotted a 4 dr donor car in SC that looks like a potential for an original restore. Lot of rework done on the rolling chassis. Anyone in SC who can inspect???

[kevinshea]

Okay --- I will look for the driver door tag. There is only one seat, a "bucket seat". There doesn't seem to be a passenger seat. I guess this was an early UPS truck, they figured they only needed a single seat!

I am getting additional info and it looks like the toeboards may have been wooden. The bottom most of the firewall is square cut, so it is either a bolt in toe board or a wooden one. My Ford wagon has wooden toe boards. The cargo area floor is all wood.

[Jim Benjaminson]

If you can get the right front door open, you will find a metal tag (about 3/4 inch wide by four inches long).  The serial number will be stamped on that.  Post it here and I can tell you exactly what year it is.

Spare tire mounted behind the drivers seat, sounds like it has a seat from a station wagon.  Sedan delivery's had bucket seats......

[brucepine]

The bolt pattern should be the standard Chrysler/Ford 4 1/2 inch.  Any wheel from a Full size Mopar will fit, also 1973 or newer Valiant/Dart. 

[kevinshea]

Still a bit confused about the year. I cannot get a good look at the front since it is blocked by a bunch of stuff. But, I have a picture of another 41 and it shows the spare tire mounting holes on the pass side forward of the rear fender. Also, I cannot open the hood to look for the body tag.

Mine has the spare tire mounted internally behind the driver seat, which is such a change I wonder about it. The body panel has no visible holes on the pass side (but I still need to clean this thing up)

I supposed there is a body tag on the firewall that will tell me for sure? Are the 41 and 42 dash boards the same?

[kevinshea]

I need to move the car and it has no rims/wheels. What is the bolt pattern and what rims can I use to get this thing up and on rubber.

Very weird coincidence. In my research to understand the issues, I have been contacted by a guy who just found another one.

[Hydrive53]

PLEASE KEEP THAT ONE ORIGIAL IF YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you think it will be to much work for you to keep original, I think someone in the club would love to have it to redo!!!!!!!

[Wm Steed]

Kevin.. In response to your question about the modifications to my car. I did a lot of research before I did anything. I knew I needed a new front cross member w/springs etc., because mine had been broken and repaired many times. After talking with a lot of people I knew I did not want a used subframe that was barrowed from some worn out vehicle so I settled on a FATMAN Stage III because he was the only Company that specificly makes componets for the early Mopars. 

I used a 2001 GM 350/330 hp crate engine, 87/93 GM 700R4 trans and a 71/80 Camaro, 10 bolt  8-7/8" differential (54-1/4") backing plate to backing plate. Rear springs are Posie. Front suspension is FATMAN power rack/pinion, w/GM Camaro 11" rotors w/power assist. The car has cruise, tilt, PW, PD and AC. The wheels are special built steel 15 x 7 w/60 series black walls and stock '39 Plym hub caps. Everything on the car other than the items mentioned in the above is NOS Mopar ano/or rebuilt '39 Plymouth with the exception of the spotlights and foglights which are correct '39 vintage Appleton units.

If you want specifics as to how we accomplished the modifications sent me an email and I will pass that info onto you.

My car drives like a dream worthy of any Chrysler built vehicle, I have said it before and will repeat it again. Walter P. made a great car, I just improved it....Bill

[Bob]

Kevin,
The owner's name of the sedan delivery is Elwood Hummer.
He lives in New Jersey, this is the best I can do,
The photo was taken from the March-April '96 issue of the "Plymouth Bulletin"

Hope this helps,
Bob

[Bob]

Here is a copy of a 1941 Plymouth sedan delivery.

According to Jim B. this man is still a member of the POC, you might want to contact him

Hope this helps,
Bob

[Jim Yergin]

I believe the chassis and drive frain would be the same for both a P11 and a P12. The differences between the two in 1941 was primarily trim and other less major parts with the P11 being the less expensive version.
Jim Yergin

[kevinshea]

Bill --- can you describe your modifications? do you have a chevy 350/350, mustang II front end, improved suspension, nova rear end, etc.... if so, what resources did you use to find out how to do that in a plymouth.

I am still debating the issue and have done so in other cars. I have a slightly modified 35 Ford Wagon and a pure 54 buick, neither of which is a true "daily driver". A ford has numerous sources for modification products. Does the same exist for plymouths?

I will make sure this rare vehicle is kept from the crusher... question is what and how to bring it back to useful condition.

[Wm Steed]

The question here is.... to modify or not to modify a rare vehicle?
Anyone that has read my postings to the POC Board should know that my '39 Conv coupe is a very rare car and that it is highly modified. Why did I modify it???? For starters it had been beat across the gravel roads of Montana for many years so the chassis was junk!!!!! On the power train side of the issue, I selected a later model power train because at the time the information available to me was very limited. I did not discover the internet, the POC Board and ebay until I was two years into the car.

In the case of a sedan delivery, I would be relucktant to modify the vehicle to much. If the frame/chassis is bad, componets from a sedan/coupe can be used, maybe a later model flat head engine with an overdrive would be in order with some upgrades to the brakes....Bill

[kevinshea]

It is definitely a 41... the dash is different and the inside spare tire mounting  and the front opening hood, give it away...
So that's good. We know what it is. I will try to figure out how to get the photos into the small size and post.

The interesting part of this was to find out that the floor behind the driver to the rear doors is/was completely wooden, like plywood. BTW one of the best woodie station wagon plate that I have seen was on a plymouth -- the plate -------- PLYWOOD!

What chassis type is it? -p-11? and What would be donor cars. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has a potential donor.

[Jim Benjaminson]

The Plymouth sedan delivery is pretty rare - most of them were worked to death and then sent to the boneyard.  In all my travels, I've seen only two 1940 sedan deliveries - one original, the other highly modified and one 1941 sedan delivery.  Production was 2,846 for the 1940, 3,200 for the 1941.

[Bob]

Kevin,
I forgot that I had this photo, it is a 1940 Plymouth sedan delivery,
Hope it helps,
Bob

[Bob]

Kevin,
Here is a photo of the dash from my 1940 Plymouth, the dash is different from the 1941's

If you want to keep the sedan delivery original, the parts are out there to be had

Good luck, which ever direction you decide to take,

Bob

[kevinshea]

Jim ......That would make it a 41.. since the hood opens from the front, with the latch mechanism under the hood ornament. Well, it should open, but it is a bit stuck. Right now, I can only raise it about 2-3 in at which time it is prevented from opening by the travel limit of the latch mechanism (doesn't work). And, the position of the vehicle is not condusive to figuring that out yet.

Does the dash look also provide the tell for which year? Is the 40 and 41 dash the same?

Is there a source for number of production units?
Is the 41 chassis a car chassis? p11?

[Jim Yergin]

At least with the passenger cars the hood opens differently for '40 than for '41. The '40 hood opens on the sides and '41 it opens from the front, "alligator style."
The POC is dedicated to maintaining originality so this may not be the best web site for you if you want to modify the vehicle. You might want to try this site instead :
http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/index.php

Jim Yergin

[kevinshea]

Hi -- new to the board.

Have the chance to pick up a 1940 (or 41) sedan delivery in reasonable shape. It has been sitting for years and the chassis is pretty well in solid rust. However, the sheet metal is in pretty good shape, with not to much rust out except for bad floor pans.? Dash is pretty well rusted out. Cowl forward is also pretty reasonable. Has original engine.

My question is original or modified, and if so, how. I have done restorations before so understand most issues. I can buy a running donor (p11 i think) and swap out bodies and be off and running. Or, I can install a "modern" drivetrain, brakes, etc, and get what I want as a daily driver. The issue that I have there is are conversion parts available? ( in fords, most everything is readily available from parts stores like Speedway.) Is there a group or forum that discusses modified, and are there shops that provide modified parts for early Plymouths?

40 or 41? Seems like years can be defined by the location of the spare tire... This has the spare tire mounted internally behind the driver seat. From looking around it seems that the bodies are similar, and the 39s have the spare in the fender.

I would appreciate any comment, suggestions or ideas on an approach as well as any sources for a running donor car.

Need to figure out how to make photos small enough to attach.