6 to 12 volt system.

[Go Fleiter]

Some 12 V thoughts:
My stock 6 V Starter works since some years with 12 without any problems, as does the ign coil ( but only 5 seconds while starting, than back to 6V - engine starts always immediately with gas beeing pre- pumped to the carb by additional electrical pump)

I believe that the electrical top motor will stand 12 V for a long time too as not beeing used too long to overheat. Both starter and Top motors can be wound for 12 V if burned at acceptable costs and without changing appearance.

Clock, Ventilator and wiper motors are used for longer times - maybe You stay safer with 6 V. Same is with Tank unit. While the calibration of mine is not affected by Voltage differences, the coils seem very fragile to me plus considering its cost if burned.

Didn?t check turn signal relais: it is easy to put a 12 V unit. My horn plus relais works great with 6 V, I would take no risk with 12 V. Am Meter should work with both, 12 V system needs less Amperage.

And Bill: Saturday I had a beautyful cold winter day, so I did a couple of Ply miles-  Top stayed closed...

Greetings ! Go.

[Wm Steed]

I think Go is right about the importance of how you hook everything up. In my limited electrical knowledge (I was an electronic specialist in the Army) it would appear to me that a seperate fuse panel would be needed for the 6v side, then one could take leds off the 6v panel through a seperate switch if needed and to the accessory needing 6v. In the case of a radio, heater or conv. top motors,  the existing switches should work. If the original generator is used, the regulator would have to be turned up or a 12v alternator could be used.

The fellow on the EFV8 Forum did not go into great detail as to how to hook things up. He was responding to a question as to how a person could convert 6v conv. top motors to 12v. The assumption would be made that the vehicle had been upgraded to 12v for starting, lighting, etc.

In answer to Go's question as to how/what was done here in Ventura?   Everything mechanical in my car is 2001 or later, my top operates from vacuum so I did not have to deal with converting the electric motors. I used a voltage reducer on the original radio, the heater was replaced with an Antique Air unit which supplies both heat and air conditioning. I converted the original headlights to 12v halogin....

[Go Fleiter]

Dear bill,

   very good idea, if You take 2 Batts with same capacity etc. Study the electical diagramm carefully, what goes over the ign swich must all have same voltage. You can not use the ign swich for the 6V radio for example, so shunt it . The 6 V ign coil may burn when driven always at 12 V, then replace wirh a 12 V one. I didn?t try, but I thiink that my genarator and  regulator can be adjusted to deliver 12 V  (read 13,5 V). While testing one day it gave more than 25 V, burning every bulb...

  Godd Idea, let us know what You did in Ventura!

Greetings! Go

[Wm Steed]

The other day there was a neat trick posted on the Early Ford V8 Club Forum about converting 6v to 12v.
The poster said that he always used two 6v Optima battery's hooked in a series to achieve 12v, then he hooked up his 6v accessories at the 6v battery post closest to the grounding post. Magic..... a dual voltage system.
I have not tried this yet, but it sure makes sense....Bill

[jd2ksilver]

Thanks Dave,

To be honest, I am stuck in what I want to do.  I am learning more and respecting the idea of a complete stock car, restored to original.  But I also would like to improve, or make more reliable in some areas.  The car already has been painted a different color, has front wheel disc brakes, a modified exhaust system.  So I don't think it will ever be judged properly.  If that's the case, other performance adds would not hurt? 
I would like to drive the car to Woodward, and I mean drive it.  So it really needs a overdrive tranny for sure.  It's a good motor, but the high revs on the freeway would kill it I think.
The old suspension rocks like a boat in rough seas.  That will be fixed soon, but I may lower it at the same time. 
The 12 volt system will let me have other accessories if I want. 
I was able to acquire NOS front hood ornament, medallion, and nameplate that go on soon.  Looking now for the rear.  I would like the outside and interior to be as original as possible.  But I want a reliable, sound car to drive distance if need be, and be able to keep up with traffic in doing so.
I appreciate all the help from this board and it's members, knowing that their intent is to preserve the Plymouth in original form.  But this car will never be NOS again.  So I want to have a sound car.  So what I described above will probably happen.
Any other thoughts from others is welcome, feel free to jump in here.

[mopardave]

Good luck to you with the Plymouth, JD.  I am not ready to sell the Prowler, but I will probably stop driving it soon and pay more attention to my other Plymouths.

[jd2ksilver]

JD:? Just wondering what kind of progress you are making on the Plymouth?

Hey Tom, actually nothing as yet.  I have been driving it since I got it, and the Prowler stays in the garage,, lol.  To be honest, I think I may be selling that car in the not to distant future.  Not much more I want to do it.

I am trying to keep down time to a minimum.  I have been studying Pete's site freguently.  Have a lead on a 12 volt starter, alternator set up.  I guess after the new year it will happen. 
Bought a front lowering kit (approx.3 inches) /shock relocation (to bolt the top to the frame instead of upper A arm)/new king pin set up, and will do that at the same time.  Also going to hook up with one of my sheet metal guys to get a heater duck that will not fall apart.

[mopardave]

JD:  Just wondering what kind of progress you are making on the Plymouth?

[jd2ksilver]

Thanks, and no, no rust.  Car was bought in Detroit, driven to AZ and stayed there for 25 years or so, then to storage in Calif.

But it does have that undercarriage protection the dealers always tried to sale.  Covers everything, nuts, bolts, hoses, wires.  Spending parts of weekends underneath and scraping.

[Captain Cranbrook]

Nice looking Cranbrook.  And I'll bet there's no rust on it.  Can't say that about Northeast cars here in Jersey!

[jd2ksilver]

Awesome, thanks :o

I have to do some planing with this I can tell.

[blueskies]

This is all great information, thanks a bunch.  Blueskies, can you tell me where you had your radio upgraded?  I have heard about it, but didn't know where to go.

jd-

I had http://www.bobsradio.com/ do the conversion of my stock radio.  The only visible diffrence to the stock radio is a small LED, which changes color to inidicate what mode the radio is in, AM/FM/CDinput.  The sound quality isn't like a modern stereo unit that costs far less, but I wanted it to look like an original radio.  The tuning controls are original, the preset buttons still work, etc.  The tone button (lo/med/hi) now toggles AM/FM/CDinput.  There are fade, balance, trebble, and bass knobs on the side of the radio case, under the dash, that can't be seen.  It also has a power lead for a power antenna if you so choose.

Pete

[jd2ksilver]

Again, thank you for the info.  Having fun with it just discovering things.

[jd2ksilver]

This is all great information, thanks a bunch.  Blueskys, can you tell me where you had your radio upgraded?  I have heard about it, but didn't know where to go.

For now, I am trying to get everything working.  There already has been some upgrading with the wiring by someone else. The whole front light system has been done, pretty nice job too.
I just got the heater blower working today, hook up the hoses tomorrow to see if I have any core leaks.
I too want to use newer accessories in the car, but I am trying to go slow, and enjoy the work.

Pic of the car, was in storage 25 years, I have all service records from the day it left Detroit to 1976.

[blueskies]

you will also have to change all your bulbs which will require changing the tail light recepticals from 1154 6 v style (straight Pin) to 1157 12 v (staggered pin) style....Bill

You can replace the 6v straight pin bulbs with 12v straight pin bulbs, and not have to replace the sockets.  I have them on my car.  While they aren't as readily available, you can get them at most auto parts stores.  I bought a few extra just in case I need one on the road somewhere since you can't buy them at the gas station...  With the straight pin bulbs, you have to put them in the right way or the tail lights will be on the bright fillament, and the brakes and signals will be unseen on the dim fillament.

Also, I agree that the 6v system is completely adequate when up to snuff.  I don't think this thread needs to become a "one is better than the other pissing match", because they both work well.  It simply depends on your individual needs, how much of a purist you may be, and how you plan to use your car.  I use my car as a daily driver, and am not interested in show points, so I'm not concerned with the originality of the wires unseen to 90 percent of the people who will see my car.

I didn't convert my car because I thought the 12v system would perform better.  I did it for several other reasons.  My original wiring was crumbling, and needed to be completely replaced.  Replacement stock wiring harnesses are more expensive.  Aftermarket harnesses have fuse blocks for all the circuits, wires are labled, and grouped with clear instructions.  I wanted to be able to run 12v accessories, like a cell phone charger.  I wanted to have my stock radio rebuilt for am/fm/ four channel stereo which requires negative ground, and lastly, wanted to be able to jump start the car without worry if the need ever arrises. 

Except for the radio, all bulbs, and perhaps the dash clock, the only thing that won't work on the car with 12v is the fuel guage.  I bought a $15 "Runtz" from Speedway Motors.  The Runtz is an electronic voltage reducer designed for sensitve electronics like the fuel guage, and provideds a clean spike free power source to the guage.  The heater fan motors can be reduced with a simple and cheap ceramic type reducer.  I found that my original motors perform much better on 12v though, and eliminated reducers.  I use the fan motors regularly for long periods of time and they haven't missed a beat yet.  My starter was dead, so when I had it rebuilt, I had it converted to 12v while they were at it, but the 6v starter would probably outlast me running on 12v.  The stock radio is the only problematic item, as it requires 6v POSITIVE ground.  This wasn't an issue for me, since I had mine redone for 12v neg ground.  My car doesn't have a clock, so I don't know if they can be used on negative ground systems or not.   Installing an alternator is very simple, it took me about an hour to modify the stock generator bracket with a length of threaded rod and a couple of brass bushings.

Pete

pic of the Runtz voltage reducer on the fuel guage-

[Wm Steed]

I hope the new Fourm is not going to get to snooty about modifications/modernizations to the old car's.

With that said, I will move on an attempt to answer the mans question.

As stated in the above, 6 volt systems can and did work very well, IN THEIR DAY, however a lot of people want something more now a days.  Actually...... a lot of the export cars were built with 12 volt systems. One alternative is to run 8 volt, this only requires adjusting the regulater, none of the bulbs or accessories have to be changed including the radio, of course you have to make sure that all of the wires/connections are clean and tight. A new wire loom might be in order so as to eliminate any wire corrosion that will cause high resistance and thereby cause loss of electrical power.

If you are going to convert to 12 volt you should rewire the entire car, you will also have to change all your bulbs which will require changing the tail light recepticals from 1154 6 v style (straight Pin) to 1157 12 v (staggered pin) style....Bill

39 Plym conv. coupe

[52plym]

I went through the same problems..dim lights, tired starter etc etc.? In going through my cars, I installed complete new wiring harness from Rhode Island Wiring - - look exactly like the original, but made better with neoprene inside fabric, etc.? I then pulled my starter, generator, and regulator out and had them completely rebuilt.? Honestly, the lights are as bright as a 12 volter, and the car turns over fast and strong...generator keeps the battery as new.

When these cars were built, the 6V system was perfect for the car - still is if it is in good condition.? Why spend the money, energy and time trying to do? something to the car that could have been done at the time of manufacture if it was necessary....WHICH IT IS NOT !

[jd2ksilver]

I should add the car has some modifications already.  Someone durings it's life time had put on front disc brakes.  Also the rear backup lights have been removed, holes welded shut and repainted.

[jd2ksilver]

Not sure I am as yet Dave, I just had the underbody steam cleaned, and all the electric is much better now.  Lights are brighter, (my main concern).  So I guess time will tell.

[mopardave]

JD:  I guess I didn't realize you were gonna be modifying the car.  Good luck with the project.

[jd2ksilver]

thanks for your replies, and I will take the advice.   :)

[Bill Davis]

jd,

I have a '51 Cambridge 4 door and I have no problems with my 6 volt system.
The thing to remember is that it takes twice the amps for a 6 volt system to
do the same thing a 12 volt system can do.  If you rewire, the wiring needs to
be of sufficient size.  And, make sure that you use at least #1 (#0 or #00 is
better) battery cables, which includes the cable from the starter solenoid to the
starter.  Good luck with your project. 

-Bill

[blueskies]

Any help would be appreciated.

jd-

I did the conversion to my '50...  oops, did I say that out loud?  As mentioned, this site doesn't cater to modifications to the factory design.  There are lots of other sites that do though, you will find them with a quick search of the web.  Meantime, you can hop on over to my site to see what I did with my car.  Click the link in my sig, and check out the chassis page...

Pete

[Robert Davis]

Generally speaking ,although members have in the past given help on changing a Plymouth over from 6 to 12 volts, this site is dedicated to PRESERVING Plymouths in their original conditon. Why don't you Google '6 to 12 volt change' and follow that to the hot rod sites that cater to modernizing antique cars. -R. Davis 1933 PC/PD Tech Advisor

[jd2ksilver]

Just bought my car this past Saturday at Goodguys in Pleasanton CA.? A 1952 Cranbook 4 door.? So I am a very new owner.? It's kinda cool to have this site pop up just about the same time for me.

I have a list of things to do to get the car road worthy, (it had been stored for 25 year I was told), 49,000 Original Miles.

Other than get the very loose suspension tighened up, I would like to change to a 12 volt system.? Since I read where this forum use to exist before, I thought maybe someone would have some direction on where to start?? I figure I can do most of the work on this car within reason.?

Any help would be appreciated.