'41 Plymouth clutch linkage

mvair · September 16, 2006, 06:32:14 PM

I did some more research and found the information illustrated in the attached photos.

I was able to find the correct part numbers in the 1941 parts book.? It appears the spring/ plate spacer was used "as required" to provide the correct position for the torque shaft pivot bracket.? It clearly goes between the spring/ plate and the clutch housing.

The detail of this dicussion may seem trivial, but I find it to be one part of the hobby that is fun for the correct restoration of these Plymouths.

Don Coatney · September 13, 2006, 06:56:51 PM

Quote from: mvair on September 11, 2006, 02:24:36 PM
I do believe you are correct.? I am not sure there was one on both sides on my car when I took it apart.? Upon checking my parts I only see one on the drivers side.? However, I was missing a bolt on the passenger side as well.

Do you think there is something that is supposed to go behind the clutch spring plate bracket? Or is it possible the part I show in the picture does go behind the clutch spring plate and I am msising the reinforcements that goes where you show in your picture?

Thanks

Going through some of my pictures today I found these.

This pictured engine is a 1953 Desoto. Not sure what the bell housing and transmission are. However it appears there is a hunk of metal installed incorrectly on the outside of the spring plate in this application. I have had my car assembled and been driving it for a couple of years now. Have put around 7000 miles on it and my clutch pedal and linkage works great. I have not even adjusted my clutch free play yet. Aint broke dont fix it is coming into play. Anyone know for sure if a spacer is required between the spring plate and bellhousing?
Don Coatney

mvair · September 11, 2006, 02:24:36 PM

I do believe you are correct.

Do you think there is something that is supposed to go behind the clutch spring plate bracket? Or is it possible the part I show in the picture does go behind the clutch spring plate and I am msising the reinforcements that goes where you show in your picture?

Thanks

Don Coatney · September 10, 2006, 05:50:46 PM

Quote from: mvair on September 04, 2006, 01:56:21 PM
The part is labeled as "Reinforcement" Reference 6-09-12.? Let me know if you need the exact specification to make a new one. It is just a piece of steel drilled to let the cap screw pass through into the clutch housing.

Mvair;
The part listed as part number 6-09-12 is not the part that goes behind the spring plate. Instead this part goes behind bracket 6-10-05 one per side as pictured.
Don Coatney

mvair · September 10, 2006, 04:48:22 PM

Per your request...

Carla · September 05, 2006, 02:14:18 AM

Mvair, we have a couple of that 6-09-12 reinforcement part here, or at least some parts which sure look like that and were in with some '46 Plymouth miscellany......could you measure one, just thickness and the distance between the hole centres, and let me know here, so I can verify.

Don is welcome to that part if its the one he can use.

cheers

Carla

mvair · September 04, 2006, 01:56:21 PM

The part is not shown in the illustration as it was only used "as required" to properly align the pivot bracket.? It is just a piece of steel drilled to let the cap screw pass through into the clutch housing.

Don Coatney · September 03, 2006, 07:51:42 AM

[quote author=mvair It does appear you are missing the reiforcement that should go between the spring plate and the clutch housing.? This piece would allow your spring plate to bolt flat to the clutch housing. ?

Quote

mvair;
I see what you are talking about with a shim required behind the spring plate. However I do not see that part in this drawing. Anyone have a picture of this missing piece? Thanks for the heads up.
Don Coatney

mvair · August 31, 2006, 03:44:22 PM

The part you show is correct for the P15.? The P11/P12 used a spring plate also, but it was a different shape.? The torque shafts were also different in 1941 and 1946.

It does appear you are missing the spacer that should go between the spring plate and the clutch housing.? This piece would allow your spring plate to bolt flat to the clutch housing.
?

Don Coatney · August 30, 2006, 02:11:49 PM

Pictured is my P-15 linkage. Are you talking about the flat piece of metal that bolts to the bell housing?
Don Coatney

Carla · August 30, 2006, 04:52:46 AM

Mvair,

Thank you very much for those excellent photos......as it turned out, the car's owner actually had that part, but had put it away thinking it was for some other function.......when looking for yet another part, I saw the little 'bracket' or 'spring plate', which I recognised from your photos, and that, as they say, was that.

I 'owe you one'........... : )

cheers

Carla

mvair · August 26, 2006, 10:09:10 PM

Here is one more picture from a different angle.

Collector's Auto Supply shows they are able to get the bracket ( Part #692780) used for $10 and NOS for $40.

mvair · August 26, 2006, 10:06:55 PM

The attached pictures show the pieces I believe you may be missing.? The bracket is made from .060 sheet metal.? I can send you a tracing of the bracket if you need it.? I believe the part number is 692780 which was used (according to the parts book) from 1939-1941.? ? There is also a reinforcement (spacer) between the bracket and bell housing. The spacer is part number 692781. I can also send you the dimensions of this spacer if you need.

The assembly in the attached picture is for illustration only.? The bolts are not tight but everything in in the correct original place.? The retainer snap rings in the ends of the torque shaft are also not installed if you are looking closely.

Hope this helps.

Carla · August 26, 2006, 05:13:57 PM

Hi, Tod,

Yes, its Bob Severin's car, and the subject of the anguished message.

Thanks for the .pdf of the photos......the part thats needed is really not visible in the photos, tho.

To get an idea of the part, where it fits, and what I'm guessing it should look like, have a look at part no. 21 in the photo, the frame bracket for the clutch torque shaft, part no. 13. This bracket part has the ball configuration which mates with the split bushing (part 19) which has the interior configuration to fit over that ball, and then slides into the bore of the clutch torque shaft.

The 'inboard' end of the clutch torque shaft has a similar bracket part and another #19 split bushing. We have that part, which corresponds to #21, but need whatever part it is which goes between the clutch housing (bell-housing) and the bracket.

Looking at the linkage parts we have here, I'm tempted to wonder whether Bob brought over the clutch linkage cross-shaft from some other year or model of Plymouth.....the photos aren't very clear where we need to see the parts, but it looks as tho the cross-shaft in those photos simply rides on a pin which is positioned on a bent steel bracket of some kind.

The clutch cross-shaft which was in a box of parts with the car may well have been there by mistake, it would seem.

If there is any way we can get a photo of a known correct '41 clutch linkage, we should be able to tell whether we just need one more bracket part, or whether we are trying to fit up a wrong clutch cross-shaft.

I asked Bob to carefully and thoroly inspect his garage and parts storage areas at his house, lest the correct part might have gone into hiding somewhere.....it would 'just figure' if the original part had been mis-placed, and we are trying to fit up the linkage from an earlier car.

Tod, whilst I 'have you on the phone' so to speak, do you know of any reliable automotive machine shops in the south bay area?

All the old-line reliable automotive machine shops, with which I'd dealt, for the last twenty-odd years, are now shut down and gone.

In theory, anyway, I'm supposed to be 'retired', these days, and really want to minimise the amount of engine work I'll be doing.....I don't mind doing up an occasional engine for friends, but really don't want to have to think about investing in the machinery and equipment needed to do the work I'd been accustomed to simply 'farming out'......particularly the crank grinding and crank/flywheel/clutch balancing.

cheers

Carla

TodFitch · August 26, 2006, 12:43:30 PM

This must be what the anguished message on my machine was when I got home last night. I don't have the part but I do have service manual that has a pretty good illustration of what the 1939-41 linkage is.

The maximum file attachment is 300KB and my high resolution scan is 6 MB, so you will have to download it from:

http://www.ply33.com/temp/41PlymouthClutchLinkage.pdf

(Upload from my server is a little slow too, so it will take a while to download even if you have a fast link.)

I assume you are talking about item number 44 in the picture. Or maybe something that holds item 44 in place.

Carla · August 26, 2006, 05:11:59 AM

Hello, all.

I've been helping a friend put the engine back in his '41 Plymouth sedan, and ran into a 'lost part' problem. He took the engine out of the car two or three years ago to have it rebuilt, ran into a horrific soap-opera with the incompetent engine shop from hell, eventually paid a grim ransom to recover his engine from their clutches after they had 'rebuilt' it.

He brought it up to my place and I went through it correcting the 'rebuilder's' errors, and now the engine is back in the chassis......but.....its missing 'something' needed to get the clutch linkage assembled correctly.

Does anyone have a photo or drawing of the '41 clutch linkage, particularly of a little part which is held to the bell-housing by two 5/16 capscrews, and extends forward to hold the part which has the ball-end arrangement which goes into the clutch cross-shaft, with the two little split bushes?

Is there any chance that someone might have a spare '39, '40, or '41 bell-housing which might still have that part on it, or has anyone a '39-'41 clutch linkage assy that they could photograph for me?

cheers

Carla