Vinyl insert for roof...

[TodFitch]

Thanks Lew! With your reference to Group 23-CB, I looked in my 35 parts book for the same section. I found Group 23-BX - Deck or Top Material ...

A bit off topic, but your post triggered an annoyance for me: Don't you just love how inconsistent they were with group codes in the parts books?

When I put things into my on-line database I try to put the part listing into the "correct" group and what I call "sub-group". Group being, for example 23 and sub-group being CB. But it depends on which part book I first find the part as to where I put it. Group 23 seems to be the worst as early parts books had groups 23 through 29 with a group for each body type. Later parts books have all body types in group 23.

[JimCno]

Thanks Lew! With your reference to Group 23-CB, I looked in my 35 parts book for the same section. I found Group 23-BX - Deck or Top Material (a section I had never noticed before). They list Vista Grey, Gunmetal Light Color, and Grey Spray Finish Straight Grain for my 4-D Touring Sedan deluxe and black for the non deluxe model.

After seeing that, I'm guessing neither the short or long grain available these days are original to my PJ.

[Lew]

Just located another '36 parts book dated 3-2-36 which appears to be very complete. It supercedes Nov. 1,1935. The parts numbers are listed in Group 23-CB "deck or top materials".  There are 5 listings for the closed cars: black straight grain, black french grain, grey spray finish (straight grain), Palm Beach Grey, Aqua Marine Blue. ( all 7xxxxx parts numbers)
The latter 2 were used on the cars painted those corresponding colors. All other body colors are listed to use Black "deck material".
Also, there is a footnote that the Palm Beach and Aquamarine were not used previously on Plymouth cars, so perhaps the '35's didn't have color coordinated materials.
Hope this adds some clarity.
LR

[JimCno]

Thanks to all for all the information.

Lew, the idea of using a color matching the body color had not even crossed my mind. That will give me something else to think about.

Todd, as always, your website is a wealth of knowledge. I can't tell you how many times I've been to it for information about my car.

What ever is under my cover right now (I assume bows and chicken wire) is solid so I doubt that I would try to replace it with a hardboard material but thanks for the ideas.

[TodFitch]

Some Dodge trucks used a hard board material rather than the combination of chicken wire and padding used on passenger cars.

Be careful about following instructions on installing a top for non-Chrysler products: Most of them have the material tacked around the outside with the tacks covered with hidem. Plymouth and other Chrysler products have the top material attached to the frame when the frame is out of the car and then the whole top is pressed in. See: http://www.ply33.com/Repair/roof

[Lew]

I found a reference in an orig. 35/36 parts book; the roof material was imitation style (probably lacquered over cotton, etc) and matched body color.There were 2 types listed, straight grain and french grain, but not sure what the latter looks like. The closest thing today would be brands like Naugehide, etc. or material used on hardtops (still available) in various colors if you go that route,  or as stated, long or short grain material in black available from antique Ford suppliers or Restoration Specialties, Inc. Sedans usually take the wider style. The Diablo A's model A club in Concord, Ca. has a video ( for a charge) on installing tops on a sedan with wood bows using a hardboard foundation (masoniite or a door skin and a thin outdoor carpet), eliminating the chicken wire, etc. Would be interesting if it could be adapted to the '35' and '36 top channel/rubber seal system.

[JimCno]

I have a parts book for my '35, however I see no listing or description of the deck material. I does list the weatherstrip and bows that go with it though. There is no listing for 451509 or 451510 part numbers either.

The link to Haartz is interesting. I does talk about decking material and grains (they are calling it long and short "cobra" grain). It also states that many manufacturers of those materials had little consistency of what was used or even standards of descriptions.

It probably doesn't make any difference.

[TodFitch]

I don't have a 1935 parts book but I see in the 1928-33 Master parts book that they used a number of different part numbers for the "Roof deck cover" over those years. In fact, for 1933 they apparently had two different suppliers as the entries are as follows:

Roof deck cover (Meritas) . . . . . . . . . . PC, PD     451510
Roof deck cover (Zapon). . . . . . . . . . . PC, PD     451509

If you have access to a 1935 parts book you might want to see if the same part number was used or if some helpful hint was given in the parts description.

Doing a web search turns up some explanation on the Haartz web site at http://www.haartz.com/en/consumer_info/glossary/glossary.asp You might want to call them and see if they have a material similar to one of those two that were definitely used on Plymouth.

[JimCno]

My '35 has the typical vinyl roof insert. It needs replacing. I see there are two types of material, short grain and long grain. Is one any more advantageous or appropriate than the other?