39 Plym. Conv. Coupe

[Wm Steed]

I believe Pat's comment about the "attainable/sustained speed of a stock '39 Plym is pretty well on the mark.

In my quest to find parts and information about the '39 Plym conv's, I encountered a man named Marrion Cuttler in Idaho that had a '39 Plym conv which he had purchased in 1940 from a music teacher at IFHS.

Marrion told me many really neat stories about the 55 + years of ownership of the '39. He and wife used the car for their honeymoon when they were married in 1940. Marrion told me that in 1941 he tried to catch a Greyhound Bus that had left Idaho Falls, heading south for Salt Lake City. He drove the car at a high rate of speed for about 70 miles, then the engine threw a rod. Marrion had the car towed into the Chrysler/Plymouth dealer in Pocatello. When Marrion picked up the car, the Service Manager told him..... "Mister Cuttler, I do not want you to ever drive this car over 45 mph again" Marrion told me that from that time on, he never drove the '39 over 45 mph.

Another really neat story about the Plymouth was about a trip they took to Los Angeles in 1941, Upon their arrival in LA they could not find affordable lodging so they had to sleep in the car for several days. At night they would park in Griffith Park, the wife would sleep in the front seat, Marrion would sleep in the rumble seat.

Marrion was kind enough to get the car out of the garage anytime I asked him to, so I could take pictures of the car, and certain areas in particular. Marrion wanted me to buy the car, he feared what would happen to the car after he died. I was leary of the car because I could see that the car had been "refurbished" e.g. repainted and the engine repaired to running condition, in lieu of restored. Through the many conversations I had with Marrion, I could tell that he felt the car was worth a lot of money.

Marrion passed away several years ago, his daughter sold the car to a man in the Seattle area....Bill?

[36 Ply]

I would imagine that 120 mph would be about 50 mph in the "unattainable range" for a stock '39 Plymouth. :)  ;D ;)

And I wouldn't try a sustained 70 mph with one either.  :)   ;D :D

Regards,
Pat O'Connor

[Wm Steed]

I was reading through my earlier postings to this topic and discovered that my description of the process to install new felt ant-rattle insulators into the window run channels was not quite accurate

I have fretted about the anti-rattle felts for months because no one knew what I was talking about, the advise was always the same.... modify the channels to accept modern window channel material. I had toyed with the idea except I could not see how I could get a window frame that is 1/2" wide to smoothly function in a metal channel that is slightly over 5/8 wide, if modern window channel reduced the channel to 3/8" or less. >:(

While looking through Restoration Specialities Catalog I came upon a listing for 1/8" x 3/4" felt.? I thought, Hmmmm ? could this material be made to work? I ordered several feet of the product. Upon the arrival of the felt I took a large pair of scissors and cut the felt into 1/4" strips. Once I un-crimped the ends and cleaned the groves in the window run channels, the new felt slid right into the grove. I then re-crimped the ends to secure the felt....Bill

This is the whole story on installing new felt strips into the window run channels:
The 1/8" x 3/4" black felt I received from Restoration Speciality's was a fat 1/8", while the grove it had to fit into was a very thing 1/8". I? struggled with this situation for many hours. The felt was fairly easy to place into the grove for the first couple of inches, then as it warmed up it seem to expand, the more I fiddled with the felt the harder it was to fit it into the grove.
In time and old saying my dad had taught me came to mind...... This ain't your girl friend, so.... quit playing with it...

I tried freezing the felt, thinking that the cold would shrink the felt, and thereby making it easier to use.... wrong... cold has little effect on felt. I finally came up with the idea to cut the felt to size, approximately 5/16" wide, then I placed the felt onto a 1" angle iron, placed a flat strip of steel over the felt and placed clamps all along the piece, tightening the clamps so as to compress the felt as much as possible. I left the felt in the compressing device for several hours, then I removed the felt and quickly placed it into the grove before it could rebound to it natural size.
The compression of the felt did the trick, I was able to insert the felt into the grove in about a minute per strip.

I wonder??... Is all this effort to restore the window channel assembly really worth the time and work? When I look down into the inner workings of most doors on reputedly restored vehicles, I see operators and window run assemblies that have not even been cleaned, yet the claim is made that the car has been restored.
In my mind the term RESTORED... means that the item has been repaired/rebuilt to as new, or better, standards.

I guess I have a problem, I don't like to do things twice...... as my father told me... "If you can't find time to do the project right, when are you going to find to redo it?"....Bill? ? ?

[Wm Steed]

What is happiness?......
Over the Labor Day weekend I decided it was time to put the Plym on a road trip. I own a house up near Paso Robles so I figured that since the weather was really great, a ride up the coast on 101 was the thing to do.

My grand son volunteered to go with me so bright and early Saturday morning we headed out. The first fifty miles up the coast was in shirt sleeves, when we turned inland at Gaveota it got a little cooler so we put our sweaters on. The Plym purred along at a constant 70-75 mph pulling 2,100 + rpm's at that speed. When we returned on Monday the weather was a little warmer so it was shirt sleeves all the way from Paso to Ventura.

The looks on peoples faces is priceless when they notice that a '39 Plymouth convertible is passing them in the left lane doing a constant 70 +.... Several people sped up so they could get pictures of the "Green Machine" cruising down the road. The driver of a late model Mustang convertible decided he wanted to play, he sped by me on the right, shot up the road jumping into the left lane then backed off on the throttle. Now that was like a red flag to me so I dropped the hammer cranking up past 120, shooting by him on the right like he was in reverse. I proved my point so I backed off to 70, and let him burn up the road.

A lot of people might think that 120 mph is a little to fast for a '39 Plym..... In stock form I would agree, however one must keep in mind that the suspension under my car is not '39 Plym..... everything is the best the aftermarket performance people can come up with.

I am really looking forward to getting the top on in the next couple of months.... It should even be more mind boggling to the other motorists when the Plym slips by them with the shaded windows and top up....? 8)...... Bill

[Wm Steed]

Sun visors for 37-41 conv. cpe's.....
Currently there is a listing on eBay, #400064670217 @$225. for a pair of visors for a '48-50 Dodge trk (pilot house cab).
The brackets for these visors are a direct replacement for the visor brackets on the '37-41 DPCD convertibles. The visor itself is also usable on these cars, however the backing board has to be cut down to an overall width of 4.5".

The chrome on the brackets is very nice according to the listing and pix... The last pair that I saw on eBay went for $155. as I recall.
Since I have three sets of these visor brackets, it would appear that investing in same is better than investing in the stock market and/or gold. ;D....Bill

[Wm Steed]

Convertible Glass Run Channels..... the rest of the story.
After writing the previous article about the glass run channels I got out my Chryco Parts Catalogs covering 1936-1942, my intent being to do some further research on the glass run channels.

The '36-42 catalog shows pictures of the various glass run channels, which the '39 parts book does not show, one of which is the one for the front (front door hinge pillar). There is no exploded view of the parts contained therein. The information contained in the '36-42 parts catalog does seem to indicate that the '37-39 convertibles did use the same glass run channel:

Right front door hinge pillar glass run channel assy........ #760730
Left? front door hinge pillar glass run channel assy......... #760731
Right? rear door lock pillar glass run channel assy .......... #746547
Left? ?rear door lock pillar glass run channel assy? .......... #746548

Of course the above part numbers are of little value because there is no source to order the parts from.? There is one advantage to having such information, the search for replacement parts can be broadened to cover three years of DPCD cars in lieu of just the '39 Plyms....Bill

[Wm Steed]

Another hurdle has been over come to get the "two" 39 conv's finished..........
Namely the side windows !
The side windows on the '39 conv coupes are like everything else on the cars, very complicated affairs with spring loaded side rails, that have felt anti-rattle strips inserted into a small channel.
The items I am referring to are generally called glass run channel assemblies, the units used in the convertibles have no similarities to the units used in the closed car.

I have fretted about the anti-rattle felts for months because no one knew what I was talking about, the advise was always the same.... modify the channels to accept modern window channel material. I had toyed with the idea except I could not see how I could get a window frame that is 1/2" wide to smoothly function in a metal channel that is slightly over 5/8 wide, if modern window channel reduced the channel to 3/8" or less. >:(

While looking through Restoration Specialities Catalog I came upon a listing for 1/8" x 3/4" felt.? I thought, Hmmmm ? could this material be made to work? I ordered several feet of the product. Upon the arrival of the felt I took a large pair of scissors and cut the felt into 1/4" strips. Once I un-crimped the ends and cleaned the groves in the window run channels, the new felt slid right into the grove. I then re-crimped the ends to secure the felt.

A second problem with the window assembly was noted.....
The window frame has multiple sets of small bronze rollers which guide the window within the glass run channel. These rollers have a small dimple which holds a small ball bearing that acts as an axle for the roller. Here-in because the Ford and Plymouth convertible coupes were made by Briggs, the Ford windows are very similar, but not the same. Ford used fewer and larger rollers with conventional axles.? From the time the windows were assembled the rollers never received any lubrication so needless to say the rollers are generally in very poor condition, and in several cases they don't exist. I went to a machine shop and had several new rollers made out of bronze. We were able to reuse some of the original rollers by silver soldiering the oversize dimple and then re-drilling same to fit the bearing axle.? ? ?

It was interesting to note that the glass run channels used on the Plymouth's are patented, with the info stamped into the outer edge of the channel....Bill

[Chrycoman]

Did all Plymouth bodies come from Hamtamck and Kercheval, or just bodies for Lynch Road production?  I know Briggs had a body plant in Evansville, undoubtedly for Evansville production.   Many writers claim Briggs built bodies for Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler, but I suspect that is not the case.  It would make sense if Hamtramck and Kercheval produced bodies for Plymouth's Lynch Road plant.   Starting in 1950 the ex-Graham-Paige plant on Warren Avenue began building bodies for the DeSoto plant on Wyoming Avenue.

Briggs, Murray and Budd did not have body plants in Canada, although Budd did produced body parts.   Chrysler of Canada built their own bodies from parts manufactured by themselves, Canadian suppliers or Chrysler's U.S. suppliers.   When Fisher Body stopped building bodies for Chrysler the two Fisher Body plants in Walkerville were acquired by Chrysler.   The new plant on Chrysler Centre completed in 1929 took up body production as well as replacing both the Dodge Brothers assembly plant in Toronto and the Chrysler plant on Tecumseh Avenue.

Briggs, Murray, Hayes and Budd all built bodies and parts and had their own in-house styling departments.  Briggs did submit styling proposals to Chrysler in the 1930's.  Murray's head stylist, Amos Northup, had a number of designs accepted by car companies - 1929 Willys-Knight plaid-side roadster, 1931 Reo Royale, 1933 Willys, 1937 Willys and 1938 Graham. 

Bill
Vancouver, BC

[Jim Benjaminson]

To update Chrycoman - the '39 Plymouth convertible coupe bodies were built by Briggs.  And, yes, the convertible sedans were Murray bodies.  Briggs did do design work and attempted to sell their designs to Chrysler (and probably others).  As Bill Steed has pointed out, its possible body numbers were shared between Plymouth-Dodge-DeSoto-Chrysler convertibles.  The only data base of numbers available if for Plymouth, put together by Earl Buton and myself from Plymouth Club records.  If WPC, Nat'l DeSoto or others kept track of cars by their I/D. numbers we maybe could prove that theory but as it stands, there is no data for the non-Plymouth Chryco cars.....

Another interesting thought on bodies -  all Plymouth coupe and two door sedan bodies were provided by Dodge, yet they all carried Briggs body codes.  Other Plymouth bodies came from the Kercheval plant (info from known Service Card Record files).   The more we learn, the more questions that come up.......

[Wm Steed]

It has been well documented that Briggs built a significant amount of bodies for Ford and that all of the open cars through the late 1930's were built by Briggs.
There is probably no doubt that Chrysler/Ford and the other automobile brands that used company's like Briggs to built their bodies, designed the bodies, however, I would bet with a lot of help from Briggs. One must remember that during the 1930's, Briggs had one of the major auto design studios.

I am the first one to admit that there is hardly anything on a DPCD built car that shares parts from a Ford or GM built car.
The only exception I have found to the exclusiveness of body parts, is the door check arms and the weather seals for the rumble seat deck lid. The door check arms and the seals for a '35/36 Ford rumble lid are a perfect fit for the 37/39 DPCD convertibles. Was this carryover intentional so Briggs could save some money? I would venture the guess that it was, and that neither Chrysler or Ford were aware of the interchangebility of these parts.

It has been well documented in the published data, one of which being the Standard Catalog of American Cars, that starting in about 1935 Chrysler adopted a policy of using the same basic body shell on all of their cars. The Chrysler Airway series, Desoto Series S, Dodge and the Plymouth convertibles all share the same basic body shell.
The research I have done for the article I am writing about the wind wings for the 37/41 convertibles, seems to indicate that the body numbers for the DPCD convertibles just might be consecutive....Bill

[Chrycoman]

Although Briggs may have built bodies for Ford and Plymouth, Briggs did not design the bodies.? Ford bodies were designed by Ford and Plymouth bodies by Chrysler and Briggs had the contract to built bodies to the specifications as per Ford and Chrysler.? Thus nothing on a Briggs-built Ford body will fit a Briggs-built Plymouth body.? And vice-versa.? ?However, many parts on a Briggs-built Plymouth body will interchange with a Hamtramck-built Dodge body or a Kercheval-built DeSoto / Chrysler body.

As for the 4-door convertible bodies, the 1937-38 Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler bodies were built by Murray.? ?The 1939 Plymouth 4-door convertibles bodies were an update of those 1937-38 bodies (revised cowl with new two-piece windshield) and thus were built by Murray as well.? ?I believe the 1937-39 convertible coupe bodies were also built by Murray.

By the way, the reason for the extra 3" in wheelbase on the 1939 convertible sedan over the other Plymouth models was due to the fact the convertible sedan body was a Dodge-DeSoto-Chrysler body.

[Wm Steed]

Over the past few years that I have been writing here on the topic about the rebuilding/restoration of my 39 Plym conv., I have made mention many times of the help I have given to? to a fellow 39 Plym conv owner, "The Alabama Car".? Some of the more frequent readers of this topic may recall my comments about the terrible shape the Alabama car was in having been purchased sight unseen on eBay as a "ready for paint" car which turned out to be a basket case which was missing many parts and had extensive body rust out which had been repaired with window screen, epoxy rosin and/or bondo.

Through postings to the Plym Bulletin, information turned up that the fellow that had owned the Alabama car had tried for many years to sell the car at various swap meets in the Eastern US, failing to do this he resorted to selling parts off the car which explained why so many rare parts were missing from the car when it sold on eBay. A very good example of "Buyer Be Aware" if you don't, or can't go look at a car, don't buy it purely on the sellers word.

After almost five years of work the Alabama car is now to a point that it is running and drivable.? The paint work is done, painted Faria red.

Many of the missing parts were over time located. The windshield outer chrome and inner molding was purchased on eBay. When these pieces arrived it was very obvious that they were from the Alabama car because of the primer coat used. Another clincher was that the car came with one exterior conv molding and one sedan molding. The set of exterior molding purchased on eBay was one conv and one sedan molding in the proper sides to make match pairs. The replacement of the missing side windows and tracts became an impossible task. Because the Plymouth and Ford bodies were all made by Briggs, it was hoped that the door windows from a '38-39 Ford would fit the Plym.... We were finally able to purchase a Ford window on eBay.... AT GREAT EXPENCE... It turned out that the window was close but not a match.

I recently located a metal man that was able to duplicate my window frames and tract assembly so we now have windows for the Alabama car. The building of the window frames was not cheap. They were built out of stainless steel just like the originals. Even the brass roller guides were made the same as the originals. We are going to use power operators on the windows so we won't have to have the gear drive operators built for the windows....Bill? ?

[Wm Steed]

After a considerable amount of checking around looking for a foundry that could/would be interested in casting up parts for a latch assembly, low and behold I found one in Oxnard, CA which is only six miles from me.
I took my latch assembly over to them yesterday for their review. They can cast the parts out of aluminum, bronze or a stainless steel. I told them to put together a cost estimate using bronze or stainless... I am leaning towards stainless because the need for chrome plating would be eliminated.
Naturally the engineering and set up costs for the molds would be the most expensive part of the project. Since the molds are usable for several castings, I am thinking I will have at least 10 sets of hooks, posts and T handles made.
The new parts would look exactly like the originals because the molds would be made from my latch's.
This is not going to be a cheap project. The engineering of the molds and fabrication of same is going to run into the thousands of dollars, then the cost to polish the parts and make the necessary pins. screws, etc. has to be added in.
The pay off would be that a new latch assembly would be available for those cars that either have none and/or parts would be available for the cars that have not surfaced yet
I reviewed my '36-42 Mopar parts book yesterday to see if the '39 latch assembly had any other applications in the DPCD line. Nada, zip, none.
The lowly '39 Plym conv. coupe/4 dr conv. sdn is a stand alone, sharing nothing with it's previous brothern, that is in the top portion of the car...Bill

[Wm Steed]

Bill and I, (39Plymouth) have exchanged several emails over the last few days, where-in I have have attempted to find out just what they have in the way of latch parts.
I emailed him pictures of a disassembled latch assembly because they have very little in the way of an original assembly.
I have contacted just about everyone that I could think of that might have parts for the latch assembly. I was told that the person in the Eastern U.S. that was making latch parts has passed away.
Since I have a latch assembly that has not been installed on my car yet, I am checking around to see if I can find someone that is located fairly close to me that could/would cast up some latch hooks, etc; out of bronze. I am a little reluctant to send my parts away for use as patterns because they are all rebuilt and re-chromed ready to install.
In the past when I have reached a point where a certain part and/or parts have been impossible to buy I have purchased a complete, or near complete car, I then remove the parts I need and resell the car. Sometimes I part the car out, then sell the parts I don't need.
I purchased two '39 Plym sedans to get parts for my '39 Plym. Many years ago I was redoing a '63 Chevy Nova SS conv., I purchased two hard tops for parts cars, one of the cars I purchased just to get a fender peak trim piece.
In many cases, old cars/trucks have greater value as parts in lieu of a complete car....Bill

[39Plymouth]

Bill,

Thanks for your reply and for your offer.  If it proves impossible that your contact in MD would have something, would you have a contact in your area that could make a mold of yours?  I don't know much about this to understand about the chrome plating etc...  I'm assuming you want to make a mold prior to it getting plated.?  Anyway, thanks very much for your help.  I could photograph my dad's latches so you could see exactly what he has or doesn't have.  If you had to guess, what do you think it might cost to have a set made up?  I believe he has most of the center locking mechanism, the rod pieces, but not the other latches.  Again, I'll just have to photograph what he has.  Would you be able to email me your email address?  My address is   Since he has looked for 14 years now, I wouldn't mind trying to do this for him as a surprise...a thank you for all he has done for me over the years.  Also, I did talk to someone locally here and he thought he might be able to do it even by having the dimensions, etc...

Thank you very much.

Bill

[Wm Steed]

Earlier today a posting was made to the POC (39 Plymouth Convertible Coupe) from a gentleman requesting info about the top latching mechanism.
I will make a brief posting to his topic, however, I will post the majority of my comments here on this topic.

Bill,.... I am very familiar with with the top latching mechanism on '39 Plym conv. coupes. If you read through the preceding postings I have made you will note that I have been working on my car, and a friends since 1997. The latching mechanism on the '39's is a very complicated affair because Chrysler went to a "V'd" windshield in '39 in lieu of the flat windshield that the earlier cars had. The '39 assembly has no similarity to the '40's.

The only person I know that might have a source on the latch mechanism would be Roy Kidwell in Maryland.... I have not talked to Roy in over a year, I will call him tomorrow to see if he has any parts and/or knows of someone who might.

At the present time, the top is not on my car, nor is it on the car that I am assisting with. Hopefully both tops will be installed within the next two months. I would not be adverse to supplying my latch mechanism for duplication, however there would be serious limitations because the latch mechanisms I have are all re-chromed and rebuilt ready to install.

I will attempt to post a picture of the latching mechanism.....Bill

[Wm Steed]

The bidding closed on the red '39 Plym conv.. The car did not make it's reserve of 31.k,? it did ratchet up to 17.k. Did the economy have an effect on the low bid? Maybe the flat tire and bubbled areas of the paint, had a significant impact on the bidding?

I have been in contact with Jim B. regarding the car. It turned out that the car is an unknown as far as the POC is concerned. I contacted the owner of the car and gave him info on the POC with the hope that he would join the club and/or pass the Club info onto the next owner. Since there is such a small number of known survivors of the '39 Plym Conv's, it would be nice to add another car to the list....Bill

[Wm Steed]

Currently on eBay there is a '39 Plym Conv Coupe up for auction, item #19025617580. The car has been modified into a "Restorod" V8 AT, PB, AC, etc., it is painted lipstick red, gray interior with a black top.? In the So Cal area this car is one of the best know examples of the '39 Plym's. Prior to it being sold for $38k at Hot August Nights in 1998 it took trophy's at every car show it was entered in. The car also appeared in several car publications, and on a few posters, copies of which I have.
The current bid is sitting at $15k + with a BUY IT now of $31K +. Unfortunately the car has not been maintained to the standard it deserved, but then that is typical of cars people buy, in lieu of building....Bill

[Wm Steed]

A step closer to getting my top mechanism in working order.
As I have mentioned in my earlier posts, many of the mechanical portions of the top are unique to the '39's. The latching system is also part of the "one of" items found in the '39's. It would appear that since the '39's were the first Chrysler built car to have a V windshield, the Chrysler engineers came up with a center latching system for the top which required exposed rods, concealed springs on the latching hooks, which had nice chrome plated covers to tidy everything up.

Fortunately my latching assembly  was 99 % complete, only missing one small U shaped chrome cover. Ten years of looking did not turn up one of the U shaped covers, so I asked a friend of mine which has access to a machine shop if he could make up a couple of covers for me. I gave him a cover for a sample and he said he would try.  Six months later I was handed 12 new U shaped covers which had been formed out of stainless steel. I was also given the dye which he had to make in order to press the part. The dye is made out of three blocks of steel which bolt together..... WOW!....! I had no idea how much work would be involved to make the U shaped covers.
When set side by side it is impossible to tell the original from the new one, especially when I polished the stainless. 

The corner braces which attach the header panel and the side rail over the windows is very prone to breakage because they are made out of pot metal. Several years ago with the help of Roy Kidwell I was able to get a new set of corner brackets which a fellow had cast up out of stainless steel....Bill

[Jim Benjaminson]

Seems to be a lot of fools meeting there lately.  Can't believe the prices some of the '34 stuff is bringing!  Don't pay a whole lot of attention to '39 parts....

[Wm Steed]

The Dodge truck visors I was referring to are the ones used in the '48 and later "pilot house" style of cab.
The visors listed on eBay went for the listing price of $150.... Wow.... someone really wanted them. Since I have six pair I guess I will have to get busy and list a couple of pair on the bay. Of course my luck will be that the $150 bid was one  of those situations where two fools met....Bill

[Jim Benjaminson]

1948-52 Dodge truck sunvisor brackets?  I'm assuming you mean the Pilot House cab Dodge truck and not the pre-war 1939-1948 style, correct?

[Wm Steed]

It seems as how baby steps is the name of the game when it comes to the problems associated with restoring a convertible.
I have been trying for close to two years to get a top on my car, problems with the top mechanism have thrown a wrench into the works at almost every turn.

As I have reported in my earlier posts to this topic, my car sat in an open field in Montana for over thirty-eight years, fortunately,  the top mechanism was complete but exposure to the elements had taken their toll. The "top irons" are fastened together with two types of fasteners, one being special large headed rivets and the other being special shoulder bolts of either 5/16" or 1/4" fine threated bolts which have a 5/8" head. All of these fasteners were originally chrome plated as was some of the cross arms.

After many months of agonizing over how to rechrome the parts needing chrome and research trying to find replacement shoulder bolts and something close to the large rivets, I came to the conclusion that I would not remove the rivets nor would I rechrome the four arms that were originally chrome plated, instead I would paint the whole assembly. The shoulder bolts became another big deal, ie; The portion of the bolt that goes through the arms has a shoulder larger than the thread, without the shoulders on the bolts it would be near impossible to keep the top mechanism in alignment.

Not being able to find replacement bolts, the next step was to have some made. Since the original bolts were chrome plated, this meant that replacement bolts would have to be made under size  to allow for the thickness of the chrome....Wrong... no one wanted to take the project on for a hand full of bolts of different sizes. After months of research the lights in my foggy head finally came on.... stainless steel bolts!!! I went to the bolt store and purchased 7/16" x 2" SS bolts. The 7/16" bolts gave me the head size I needed (5/8") and the length gave me bolts with shoulders in lieu of threads. After a couple of tries I found a machine shop that would cut the bolts down to the size I need. I had three sets of bolts made, one for my car. one for my friends car and one spare set.

The top assembly has now been stripped and bead blasted and is about to be painted.
Unfortunately something in the system, my camera or the POC Forum will not allow me  to post pictures showing how the bolts turned out. If anyone wants a picture I will be glad to email same to you....Bill

[Wm Steed]

The bidding on eBay ended on the 11th for the '39 conv. coupe. The bidding capped at $19,202, a pretty significant price for an un-restored car. I would bet that the buyer will be somewhat disappointed when he gets the car. He might have been seduced by the claimed "provenance"....Bill 

[Wm Steed]

If any of you convertible owners, lovers need sunvisor brackets for your car, currently on eBay there is a set of very nice 1948-52 Dodge trk chrome sunvisors. Item # 120280020839 @ $150. + 12. SH

Many years ago in searching for parts for my '39 conv. I found that the '48-50 Dodge truck visor brackets are chrome and are a direct replacement for the '37-39 DPCD open car visor brackets. The cap covering the arm spring is slightly different, but I doubt if anyone would ever notice.

In my junk yard travels I always look at the '48-52 Dodge trucks just in case the visors might still be there. I have picked up several sets, both the early chromed type and the later painted type....Bill

[Wm Steed]

Currently on eBay there is a very interesting 39 Plym conv. coupe for sale, item #120278973868, ending on 7-11.
Several years ago I was contacted by a gentleman that owned and/or owns this car.
The fellow that contacted me had purchased a house and following the purchase of the house he found that a 39 Plym conv was sitting in the garage and came with the house.

The current bid price is $12,600, the reserve has not been met yet. Since the car obviously needs a total restoration, it will be interesting to see just how high the bidding
goes....Bill

[Wm Steed]

Not much has been happening with my '39 Plym for the last few months. I have been trying to get my conv. top mech straightened out so I can get the top on the car and finish up the upholstery.

Not being one to stagnate on one project, ie; my '31 Plym and '40 Buick, I recently went on one of my parts locating missions around the western U.S.

While on my trip I stumbled into a '42 Plym conv. coupe. The car is in pretty bad shape, but with enough money and some time it could be saved. I made an offer on the car,  which is being considered.......... I wonder? have I gone totally nuts in even thinking about taking on another convertible project?....Bill 

[Wm Steed]

Mark, thank you for correcting the pix posting.

For those of you that review the pix Mark recently posted of the firewall area of my '39,... when you review the pix, you will note that the red primer extends all the way down to the bottom portion of the towers that attach the cowl to the frame. There was no evidence of primer on the frame which would lead one to believe that the primer was on the cowl before it was mounted on the frame. The dark edge on the bottom portion of the cowl is rust that formed when the cowl was exposed to the elements for 38 years.

The darker yellow on the rear portion of the body was done by the previous owner and his girl friend. They did this for a school project because they wanted the car to look like a 'clown car'.... Every time I talk to the previous owner of the car he has to relay to me the great fun he and his friends had with the car.... to him and his friends it was just an old car with little value.

In my earlier posts to this topic on the prior POC DB, I made note as to why the front end and engine was off the car. As a refresher I will again explain why...
The previous owner parked the car in 1958 because he was out of school and it was time to get on with the day to day chores of working on his dad's farm. During the harvest of their grain the Chrysler industrial engine went out in their combine. Since the Plymouth engine was very similar to the industrial engine they pulled the engine out of the Plym to put it in the combine. For some reason they removed the pan from the Plym , they found something they did not like so they just left the engine sitting in the grass in front of the car....Bill

[POC-Admin]

Look again - hehehe.

Oops.

[Wm Steed]

Mark,  You omitted the picture showing the cowl area of my car. Could you please add it to the forum so evreyone can see what I am talking about.

Thank you.... Bill

[elmo]

Jim   i agree there are some painters? that would do things like that , but i would like to think that the true tradesman would not. I have been painting since 1966 and have always removed or masked out the tags , depending on what quality job i was being paid for. I was tought the old way , if the job is worth doing , do it properly or not at all.

[Jim Benjaminson]

Wow, the car has come a long way!  I had a '39 convertible I sold and never seen or heard of it since. 

[POC-Admin]

WM, I added them to your first post and here.

Good lesson for anyone trying to post photos on a non-apple website.

In the file names NO spaces ever - they are flaky in a file name and include ONLY one period (dot). before the file extension (jpg).

Also all need to be small file size - less than 400 Kbytes - that means 800 Pixels max width and 72 pixels resolution photos taken directly from a digital camera will not work they are nice for printing but not here.

Mark

[Jim Benjaminson]

Thanks Bill - I was wondering how long the car had sat.  And when it comes to Plymouth, I've learned never to say "they never did it!".  I agree, no painter would have removed the tags to paint and then re-installed them!  Usually they paint over everything, whether it was supposed to be or not.....

[Wm Steed]

Jim,   I could find no evidence that the cowl/firewall had ever been worked on other than repairs to the lower quarters at the sills. Only the firewall portion was red primer, the sides of the cowl had yellow paint pealing off the original black. When I removed the body number, etc., tags from the firewall, the area under the tags was also red primer. Knowing auto painters like I do, I would find it to be very unlikely that a painter in the late 1940's would remove the engine and ID tags to put primer on the cowl, then reinstall same, without putting a finish coat of paint over the primer.

When I found the car sitting in the field in Montana, where it had been sitting for 38 years, the front end was not on the car, it had been removed in order to remove the engine. The engine, etc., was sitting in the grass in front of the car. Backing up 38 years from 1996 means that the car had been sitting in the field since 1958. I have to admit that I thought that the unpainted firewall was very unusual, that is why I took pictures of the area before I moved the car.

I have tried to post a picture to the forum of the cowl area of the car but for some reason I can't get them to go through, I will see if I can sent a pix or two to Mark so he can post them to the forum....Bill

[Jim Benjaminson]

Bill - Just had to add my own two cents worth here.  In all my years, I've never seen any Plymouth with just a primed firewall.  The early cars (up to 1934) had a black firewall regardless of body color (and I'd love to know the reasoning behind that!).  Is it possible there was some bodywork done on the car before you dragged it home that would have had the firewall primed?  A lot of things can happen over 60 years.   Was the front sheet metal intact on the car when you dragged it home?  Any body got any ideas or seen any other primed firewalls, of any year?

[Wm Steed]

I have recently been spending some time sorting through the pictures I have of my '39 Plym, starting from the day I found the car sitting in a field in Montana in June, 1996.
The reason I have been sorting through the pictures is because I have been writing an article I call "Rust In Peace" for the Golden State Region News Letter. Recently there was a change in the publisher of the News Letter, the new publisher has asked me to continue with my article (s), also,  he would like me to include pictures with my articles for publication in the news letter.

While perusing through the pictures I came upon a picture of the firewall area of my car that I have always found to be very interesting. My car was originally black with a red wine colored interior.  The photo of the firewall I took in June, 1996 clearly shows that the firewall was never painted with anything other than the original red oxide primer. 
I wonder?.... Why was the firewall not painted body color? Did some Chrysler plants do things differently, or was it just a mistake which the factory did not see as a big deal since it was just the firewall in the engine compartment....Bill   

[Wm Steed]

It would appear from my lack of postings to this topic for past couple of months that my '39 Plym project is in neutral..... this is not really the case
I have been busy trying to get the conv. top mech rebuilt.  Fortunitly everything for the top was on the car when I found it so I have not had to search for missing/broken parts. The big problem I have had is in getting a new front header panel made. The front header for a '39 top is made out of hard wood (oak) which is comprised of layers of oak laminated and finger jointed together. I had the original one to use as a pattern, the only trick was in getting someone to undertake the job.

I finally found a fellow in Washington that said he could make a wood header, that he made then all the time for other people and that he had a pattern for the '39 Plyms.
I ordered the panel from him..... when it arrived I could not get it unwrapped quick enough.  :( The panel is not laminated wood, it has been made from a solid piece of oak and it has a 1/4" wrap already. When I called the man he said that he made all of his headers out of solid wood so there would be no joints to come apart. He did not feel the wrapage was a problem, the top clamps would draw it down,..... and no one else had complained about his products in the past. I returned the part to him.

Being somewhat handy with wood working when I put my mind to it, I made my own panel by gluing 3/4" thick oak together, I staggered the overlap of the wood strips at the V joint in lieu of finger joints. The whole affair seems quite strong.   

The next problem I have had is with the bolts that attach the whole assembly into the car. These bolts are very special shoulder bolts with a large head that was originally chrome plated. The bolts vary in shoulder length and thread size..... leave it to Chrysler to make things difficult.  After months of looking I finally found that I would have to have the bolts made..... and then chrome plate the heads.... money money money.

While driving down the road recently I had a brain flash..... yes something still works up there.  Why not start out with stainless steel bolts, have then machined and forget the chrome plating.  I purchased enough 11/16" SS bolts (for the head size) to make three sets of bolts and took them to a machinist. I talked to the machinist on Monday, he figures he will have the bolds  finished by the end of the week....Bill

[Wm Steed]

On Monday the 29th I returned  from a trip that took me to Rapid City, SD, Montana, Idaho and Nevada, a distance of 3,200 + miles.
The purpose of my trip to Rapid City was to pick up a '49 Olds that I had purchased there on a trip to Mount Rushmore in July.
As a favor to a fellow member of the POC, that lives in Indiana, I took a '28 Plym chassis and misc parts to Rapid City so he could meet me and get the chassis & parts, thereby saving him 2,800 + miles of driving.

I picked the '49 Olds up at Moores Auto Salvage in Rapid City. Moores has been mentioned many times here on the POC DB, both by me and other contributers. I believe that I have mentioned many times that many of the parts required to restore my '39 conv came from Moores. During the course of my visit there on October 20/21 I had the good fortune to take my time to really do an extensive tour of the yard. Since I had my motor home, Russ Moore let me stay the night in the wrecking yard saving me the expense of finding a parking place for the night. The over night stay also added to my tour/picture time, I was up early on the 21st , wondering around the extensive inventory of cars taking pictures.

I was very impressed with Moores stock of '37/41 Plymouth's,  most of them were picked pretty clean of the common chrome parts and accessories, however there are plenty of doors, fenders, etc. there, and if you look close you will find a heater or two as well as other hard to find items. The majority of sheet metal I saw was in very good shape. Moores also has a very large stock of Chrysler built cars from the 1920's through the 1960's.

Did I find anything for my '39 Plym.... no I did not, I did find some parts for my '31 PA, but that is another story. I did find a bunch of parts for a friend of mines '39 Dodge coupe which I bought and took to him in Idaho....Bill     

[Wm Steed]

CONV WIND WINGS........
I have been asked to write an article about the differances  between the 37/39, early '40, late '40/41 wind wings, as used on the open cars, ie; convertible coupes and the 4 dr conv's sedans of 1939. THE CONV. WIND WINGS DIFFER FROM THE CLOSED CARS IN THAT THE SIDE WINDOW IS ONE PIECE THE LENGTH OF THE DOOR, WHERE AS THE WIND WING IS AN ADD ON AFFAIR, BOLTED TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE DOOR WITH THREE 1/4" BOLTS.

I have all the info I need for the '37/39's and the late '40/41 however I need info and pictures of the wind wings used on the early '40 convertibles, cars built prior to body number 1401. I need to know what the bolts hole spacing is and the length of the "tail" on the stanchion. I also need to know if there is a part number stamped into the back side of the stanchion. To find this number will require the removal of one of the stanchions.

If any of the members of the POC have any early '40 conv. (body num. prior to 1401) that is located in southern California, anywhere from Paso Robles to the LA area I will be glad to stop by your location and take pictures of your car and the wind wings on it.

The object of the article I am trying to put together is to clear up the confusion that exiists about what wind wings fits what.....  When I was looking for wind wings for my '39, I was told by people that had '39's that the wind wings for all '37/40 DPCD's were the same. I purchased any wind wing that came along, in one case I purchased a set from a man that had owned a '39 for many years. He had been told that the WW stanchions were very subject to breakage so he bought an extra set and put them away in case he needed them. He sold the car but forgot to give the new owner the WW's. He put them on ebay and I bought them for a lot of money because of his description and pictures. The WW's turned out to be for a late '40/41.

To date I have over $1,500 invested in WW's and still do not have a set that is usable for my car.   Maybe???..... if I can get the article written and published the confusion about the WW's can be cleared up.....Bill