6 volt coil test

[AL33PC]

  I sent a e-mail to Jim Benjaminson on Jan. 27th to get his opinion on the Atwater Kent discount, I haven't received a reply yet. If a club officer were to contact Atwater Kent, I think a group discount is more achievable than if I were to discuss this with the Atwater Kent Company.
  I don't think I'm a purest restoring my 33 PC but this theft deterrent ignition-coil set up in 33-37 Plymouth was a unique feature for the times and if at all possible something that should be retained. (I have wire diagrams showing this theft deterrent set up for the  33-37 Plymouth.)
  NOS and NORS coils most likely are quite old and subject to failure (see Post by "JimCno" below) and can cost $100.00 or more. I would rather spend a little more on a reconditioned coil which will result in a dependable critical engine component.

Thanks for the latest replies, Al

[36 Ply]

Ebay item #120521051175 is a NORS Filco AE-3 coil. The description states it is for '36-40 Plymouths and bidding starts at $19.95.

Regards,

Pat O'Connor

[34PlyPE]

Al, looks like you have been doing some home work. I like your idea to try for a discount from Atwater Kent with a group order. That may take a lot of work for someone to get that organized. Before going to that trouble, maybe we could find out from Atwater Kent if they would be interested. If so, how big would the order have to be, and how much of a discount would they offer. If Atwater Kent is not interested, or doesn?t offer much of a discount, then we may not want to spend any more time on it. If they do offer a big discount, then that might make it easier to get club members to join the effort.

What do you think?

[elmo]

you could also try www.then-now.com they carry a good supply of mopar parts and robertsmotorparts.com ,i found is another good source of mopar parts

[AL33PC]

Thanks 34PlyPE,Tod & elmo for your replies. I determined my single pole 33 coil is history. I don't get any digital ohm reading between the high voltage terminal and the primary or secondary terminal. Besides, a closer look revealed carbon tracks on the Bakelite cap from the high voltage terminal to the steel case.
I've spent several hours searching web pages for a source that reproduces or reconditions these coils. Ted's suggestion that
Atwater-Kent Mfg. Co. (www.atwaterkentmfg.com) may recondition coils was correct. I called Atwater-Kent today (1/19/10) and was quoted $150 using my core. I explained that the Bakelite cap was deteriorated, maybe $25 would be added to make a new cap. Add shipping the core and the return shipping, $200 would be a rough estimate.
The other two companies I contacted were:   www.oldmoparts.com (No NOS coils left in stock)
                                                                 www.special-interest-autos.com (Recondition some coils but not these single pole coils)
I,d like to make a suggestion. This single pole coil with the armored ignition wire was used on early 30's Chrysler vehicles for several years. If the Plymouth Owners Club could take a survey of members who would possibly want to purchase this style coil newly reconditioned, the club might be able to negotiate a better price for an order of several coils.---Thanks, AL

[elmo]

there was an after market bracket made to take a more modern coil without the armoured cable , as for bench test it will not give you the true condition of your coil,  try and find an old Auto electrical shop , if they have the right gear they can test you coil as if it is under load . where i live in NZ there is an auto elictrical shop that has been going since the fifty,s , they still have all the old testing equipment , if i take a coil in they usualy say no charge just to test it .

[TodFitch]

Al,

I talked to Roberts Motor Parts a few weeks ago looking for a coil for my 34 PE. They didn't have any, but said if I sent them my old coil they had someone who could make one for about $250. Sounds like a lot of money but it might be worth looking into if you don't have any other options.

My guess is they were referring to:

Atwater Kent Manufacturing Company
2 Jacques St.
Worcester, MA 01603
Telephone: +1.508.792.9500
http://atwaterkentmfg.com/

[34PlyPE]

Al,

I talked to Roberts Motor Parts a few weeks ago looking for a coil for my 34 PE. They didn't have any, but said if I sent them my old coil they had someone who could make one for about $250. Sounds like a lot of money but it might be worth looking into if you don't have any other options.

[AL33PC]

To "Plymouth"--- The coil I have is a single pole mounted in the firewall. I was using "terminals" in general assuming all coils have a          + and - connection. Sorry for the confusion. The reason for the armored cable as a theft deterrent is something I didn't know.  Thanks,Al

To "JimCno"-- Your single pole coil experience isn't good news. Bench testing is the only way I can check it out because the car is in pieces. If possible I'd like to use the original type coil if it can be reconditioned. Thanks, Al

[JimCno]

Bench testing a coil gives limited results at best. One common problem with these old coils is having a high resistance ground which gets worse once the coil heats up.

The bench test will tell you if the coil is bad but I'm not sure it will tell you for sure it is good.

I've never heard of rebuilding coils, I don't think it can be done. After having problems with two NOS coils (the single terminal type mentioned in the previous post) I installed a newer 2 terminal coil. It was much less expensive and I've had no problems with it since.

[AL33PC]

  Thanks Bill for your reply and diagram.
  Thanks Tod for your reply. I did go to the link you suggested. I also checked out another link which offered the same test across terminals but with differing ohm readings. I guess different 6 volt coils may give varying results. If I get ohm readings somewhere in the ballpark I can assume the coil should function.Then there is the possibility that the coil will function differently during actual driving conditions.
  If it tests bad or questionable, I would like to find someone who could recondition it.

[TodFitch]

I don't know, Al, but from this photo in my service manual, to me it says that
with all wires disconnected, you should read zero ohms from the "-" terminal to
the "+" terminal, and zero ohms from the "-" terminal to the distributor wire.

Zero ohms does not sound right. Maybe it is simply low enough that the ohm meter that they expected the mechanic to own was would not be sensitive enough to measure the resistances.

Coils are pretty much the same. Even for 12v systems as those typically have a ballast resister in line with the primary to give 6v on the coil. Only difference would be for an "internally ballasted coil".

A web search turns up this link: http://www.international-auto.com/fiat-lancia-electrical-system/how-to-test-an-ignition-coil.cfm

They suggest 0.75 to 0.81 ohms across the primary. Which you can't really measure with an old analog meter. So maybe that is where the zero ohms comes from. And around 10,000 ohms from one primary post to the secondary. I assume around zero from the other post to the secondary.

[Bill Davis]

I don't know, Al, but from this photo in my service manual, to me it says that
with all wires disconnected, you should read zero ohms from the "-" terminal to
the "+" terminal, and zero ohms from the "-" terminal to the distributor wire.

[AL33PC]

HELP! I want to bench test the factory 6 volt coil from my 33 PC. Standard Six. I understand the primary and secondary windings can be tested with an ohm meter. What are the correct ohm readings for these windings???  Thanks---AL