Can't we just all get along?

[Go Fleiter]

last week in Tirol /Austria, 2 years ago in D?ren (reading my foto board), (a Renault Dauphine behind), everybody likes Plymouth!

[Bender]

I think I have you all beat,and it happened just last weekend at the Little Guy Nostalgic drag races in Virginia. Walking around in the show car area looking for interesting Mopars,I ran across a 41 Chysler 3 window coupe. The owner was pointed out to me so I went up to talk with him. He was talking with a guy in his late 50's or early 60's that had a "highboy" 32 Ford 5*womdpw coupe that looked like it had been pro-built. The 32 owner had a scrap book on the car and was saying,"You just can't find cars like this anymore." When I said,"Yeah,you can. They are still out there,but you have to be lucky to find them. I had a friend call me on the telephone a few years ago and ask me if I wanted to buy a 32 Ford coupe. I told him "Yeah,who doesn't? I can't afford one,though." That's when he told me about one for sale in the newspaper of a small town about 25 miles away,and the asking price was $6,000 with a rebuilt 350 engine and transmission." I then told him,"Not only that,but I found out later this was the second time the ad had ran,and nobody had bought it."

That's when the guy with the 32 coupe leaned into my face and said "The bullpoop around  here is getting too deep for my waders. I ain't letting a lie like that pass." I went off on that SOB for calling me a liar,and asked him if he would like to put his money where his mouth is and bet $5,000 in cash that says I can't take him to my workshop and show him the car." He turned a little white and said he didn't have 5 grand,so I told him to shut the bleep up,and then told him he was lucky I hadn't slapped him up side the head for calling me a liar.

This man had never even seen me before,but he "knew" what I owned.  He ran around the other side of the car after I talked about slapping him up side the head,so I left and went to my swap meet space. About 10 minutes later two guys showed up that had bought old Ford parts from me and had seen my 32 and my other cars,so I sent them over there to tell that SOB that I did have a 32 coupe and that they had seen it.

[Herb]

I was at a show over the weekend with my 56 and a fellow from a group of Chevy owners came over and started a conversation and commented somewhat sarcastically how Plymouth's styling guys must have liked Chevy's style because my car strongly resembled a 57 Chevy.  My reply was looking back and forth at the two cars, "Ya, your probably right but it just goes to show you how good Virgil Exner was being able to copy a 57 Chevy in 1956 a year before the Chevy came out."    He stood their for a moment and asked who Exner was and replied he probably came from GM?  I told him NO Studebaker, with a confused look on his face he made some small talk and went back to his boys.  Funny, he walked by three times and looked the other way every time.   ;)

[POC-Admin]

Chet,

Thank you!? I believe you have summed up the problem, the solution in a clear and concise way, I wish I could have said it that well.

I belong to a local Street Rod club and about half of the members (oldest ones) feel like my 1965 Valiant (mostly original) is not a real member of the club (that is also something I have been trying to get them to change, membership is for the car not the owner.) My wife and I enjoy the fellowship and functions and I would not mind making a Street Rod someday but I would use repo parts or a starting car so far gone it would never be a true restoration anyway.? The club added a provision a few years ago when they were down to about five members to allow cars that were newer than 1948 as long as they were of "special interest" - the club now has many mid-50's - 60's cars and even some from the 70's, I also belong to the MSRA (Minnesota Street Rod Association) 20,000 members, "Back to the 50's" at the Minnesota State Fair grounds attracts almost 15,000 cars and a million people over the three days in June.? That is a club that has chosen to grow and adapt - but they have their problems too.?

Every club or organization is faced with those things that Chet spelled out very well, I have to say that the Plymouth people in general are some of the nicest people on God's earth and I hope we can keep the club focused on restoration and it's primary function to preserve old Plymouth automobiles. I also hope we never forget to have fun and enjoy the ride.

Mark
?

[chetbrz]

In the state of Maine there doesn't seem to be any Plymouth Club activity.? Though in some of the New England States there is an Plymouth Club that runs early 4 cylinder Plymouths.? I was told that I could attend meetings with them, but my 40 Plymouth 6 cylinder would have to be left behind for me to ride with a member with a 4 cylinder car.? Up until that, I thought all Plymouths would be welcome to any Plymouth Club meetings to show and travel? along together.? I myself, found that a slap in the face.? So, I never attended any of their Plymouth Club meetings.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Ping

All clubs by nature tend to be exclusionary in an effort to surround themselves with like-minded individuals.? I wouldn?t take offence to it but I know it is hard not to.? The point being, in these efforts it limits the clubs ability to generate membership.? Which I believe is to your point.? It is my opinion that if a club truly wants to influence the public at large it can only do this by embracing all and influencing those who fall short of its core principles.? Of course to do this, in a constructive way, requires more effort and work then most would like to exert for a hobby.? The other fear in my previous statement is that the membership might grow larger then the core value group and change the core principles of the club.? ?Of course this is a valid fear but a much more unlikely event.? It all comes down to the clubs ability to manage change in concert with its values.? ?An issue that political parties struggle with constantly.

My 2 cents,? ?Chet?

[POC-Admin]

I am probably not the best to answer the 4 cylinder club question but I believe they are the original Plymouth Owner's Club - the club was formed for them, by them and has since added later Plymouth automobiles.  Anyone else want to expand on why they limit the tour cars to 4 cylinder only.

Mark

[Ping]

In the state of Maine there doesn't seem to be any Plymouth Club activity.  Though in some of the New England States there is an Plymouth Club that runs early 4 cylinder Plymouths.  I was told that I could attend meetings with them, but my 40 Plymouth 6 cylinder would have to be left behind for me to ride with a member with a 4 cylinder car.  Up until that, I thought all Plymouths would be welcome to any Plymouth Club meetings to show and travel  along together.  I myself, found that a slap in the face.  So, I never attended any of their Plymouth Club meetings.

                                                                                                            Ping

[Joe Godec]

Some of our own MoPar folks can be just as bad as the Chevy and Pontiac guys, particularly the ones that think the Chrysler Corporation had no interest in performance automobiles before the Road Runners and Super Bees of 1969.? They seem to look down on anything less than a 426 Hemi or a 440 mill (though they will make exceptions for the RR's 335 horse 383).? They simply refuse to believe that Chrysler dominated the Pan Am road race of the early '50s, the NASCAR events in '55 and '56, and all of the Daytona Speed Weeks from '55 to '61, to say nothing of the accomplishments of the Pettys and the late Al Eckstrand in the early '60s.? Heck, back in 1960-1964, even out here in Colorado, far away from the street scenes of Woodward Boulevard or "San Berdoo," some of us Plymouth guys were eating 409 Chevys and Goats for breakfast (I NEVER lost a "Stop Light Grand Prix" to any Chevy!).?
I totally agree that we should enjoy and admire all vehicles for their own sakes and not just for our own parochial interests.
Joe Godec

[Plymouth-guy]

Ping, I love the little Scamps! Go to my album page and check out my '72s. Anything you needs, I have a few spare pieces.

I have run into GM jerks and it does suck. I like all old cars and am above putting someone else's old car down. Doesnt mean I cant think some of the owners are jackasses.

In high school, late seventies, most cars were GM with Ford and MoPar (mainly Plymouths) being equal.

[Ping]

Last summer I bought my second Plymouth after buying my 1940 Plymouth back in 1967.  The comment that I got the first time my Chevy friend saw my 1971 Plymouth Scamp was:  Why didn't you buy a Chevy and have something.  I only made one comment,   I said, why would I buy a Chevy when I bought the best there.  He just smiled and that was the end of the conservation.   This winter I have had to hunt to find a few parts for my Scamp. But, I have found everything I needed.  As someone said you can buy a Chevy part on any street corner, if you have the money.  Again I will not argue that point either. Smiling.    Love my Plymouths   Ping 

[POC-Admin]

I always thought that Chevy and Pontiac guys (along with some Ford guys) look down on us Mopar/Plymouth guys because they think we are stupid to search high and low for restoration parts when the only have to open a catalog and buy new parts for anything they need.  I call them plain lazy!

It was about the same when I was in High School, you were a "dork" if you drove a Plymouth or Dodge but "Cool" if you had the same Chevy or Ford everyone else had.  I don't let them get to me anymore, they won't change the real Car Guys like all brands, I go to shows and look at every car with an eye to how well the restoration is, does the guy really care about his car or did he pay someone a bundle to make it look nice - I always respect a self-restored (as much as possible) more than fat wallet guys - they tend to go with Fords, Chevy's and such because throw enough money around and you can buy a brand new one in a crate. Try that with a Plymouth!

Mark

[Eddie M]

For some bazaar reason, I have noted that most people who own Chevy, Pontiac have a huge attitude problem with people who own Chrysler products.? I have heard just about every insult they could throw.? ?I'm above returning the insults since my belief is that they have not evolved as human beings .? Ford and every other make (domestic) enthusiast seem to be civil at shows or on the street.? This is not to say we don't have pin heads with Mo-par, but they are a more rounded educated person.

[plym_46]

I was discussing with some folks last summer about our trip to Detroit for the Meet last year.  One fellow with a 63 Chevy mentioned that he would like to go to out of town shows but didn't feel like towing all that way.  Just looked  at him and said yep I know what you  mean,  good thing I have a car that's reliable enough to drive instead of having to trailer.  He just would not believe that I drove my car from central NY to Detroit.  He said the furthest he drives is about 50 miles.  I told him Plymouth built cars and cars are meant to go places, he should try one.  Then I told him about our trips to Charlotte, Virginia, and Vermont.

[Joe Godec]

The best comment I've heard about my Big-Tailed Beast (AKA: a '60 Fury 2-dr. h/t) was at a Good Guys show a few years back.? I parked it next to a '64 Vette and right after that a fellow in a '64 Goat pulled up, but left a space between his car and mine.? He then said, "You don't mind if I save a space for a friend of mine with an old Chevy, do you?"? Of course not.? The friend then turned up with his "old Chevy" -- a magnificent red '70 LS-6 (454 CID, 450 h.p.) Chevelle S/S -- and both of them were grinning like the cat that got the canary.? However, later in the day, after a few hundred spectators climbed all over the Beast (it has the big cross-ram "SonoRamic Commando" engine, the "square" "Aero" steering wheel, swivel seats, etc.), I over heard these three jokers talking among themselves and the guy with the Chevelle said, "I don't understand why all these people are ignoring our cars and going ape over that old piece of MoPar c***!"
It did my heart good.? :D? ?
'57 Chrysler 300C (is there really any other 300C?), '60 Fury SonoRamic, '65 Fuel-Injected Vette

[Cliff54]

Don't? go around letting everyone know how great our Plymouths are. Before you know it, everyone will want one then we won't be able to afford them! ;D

Hey I agree!  ;D

Cliff54

[JimCno]

Don't  go around letting everyone know how great our Plymouths are. Before you know it, everyone will want one then we won't be able to afford them! ;D

[Plymouth-guy]

You said the guy smiled as he said it. I think he was just ribbin' you, so don't take it seriously. I usually don't talk cars with someone I don't know unless I see that they are driving MoPar.

A few days ago, I was at an auto parts store topping off my tranny with some Dexron I just bought. I had the hood still open and was putting the jug in my trunk when I heard some kid snort, "Hmph, it's just a six cylinder". (He and his buddy had driven up in some eighties rustang boy racer.) I was first offended, but then thought how stupid I was at that age. Little did young Einstein know that Chrysler offered nothing but eights in 1961 and every New Yorker had the 413 Wedge.

[Wm Steed]

I did not 'coin' the term 'Belly Button Cars' which has evolved as the term to describe the tri-five (55-57) Chevy's and many of the Fords of the '30's (32/40).
Prior to finding my '39 Plym conv, I would not have given a 'plug nickle' for any Plymouth ever built. I now take offense to the Chrysler people referring to the Plymouth's as 'The Lowly Plymouth'.
I can attest to the fact that every time I take my Plym out for a drive or enter it in a car show, the reaction from people in general is very gratifying.
I can also attest to the fact that the ride and handling of my Plym is far superior to any of the other cars of the '30s/40's I have owned, that is with the exception of my '40 Buick Super.
Now that I am working on my '31 Plym PA, and the '48 we re-powered with the Chrysler Spit Fire engine, I have gained a greater appreciation for the cars built by Chrysler.
Of course, all of us here on the POC Bulletin know all of these things, so I guess I am preaching to the choir....Bill? ?

[David Pollock]

There are ignorant people everywhere.
  Chances are the guy you were talking to never drove a 55 Plymouth.
I like to tell the 57 Chev guys about my uncle's 57 Bel Air, which turned out to be a very satisfactory automobile, but ran only 36 miles on the original engine, and was beset by wheel bearing failure only partly due to the road conditions where it was used.
Somebody made a similar remark about my 51 Plymouth convertible, and my reply was, if it had been a Chev or a Ford, it would hold no interest  for me.

[36 Ply]

Cliff 54-

Who cares what others think? My first car in high school (1962) was a '47 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4 door; it cost 15 bucks. Since then I've owned a 48 4 door, a '53 2 door, a '36 4 door touring sedan, and my present '36 convertible.

If you like your car, then 'nuff said.

Regards,
Pat O'Connor

[jd2ksilver]

I think its good to be different.  I drive my Plymouth cause I like it.  Let others think what they want. 

True car people do not care its a Plymouth, Chevy, Ford, etc. They care because mine is another blast from the past on the road.

[Cliff54]

Last Month I found a real nice 55 Savoy 2 door post with automatic. She was in pretty good shape (the man wanted too much) but still would be a nice driver. I thought about it and took the mans card.
This was on a Sat. on Sun. I was sitting in Church when I spoke to a fellow old car nut and told him about my find and how much I wanted to buy the car. The kind fellow old car nut smiled and said...... "uh-huh, But its a .....PLYMOUTH!"

I feel like Rodney Dangerfield! I agree that the Plymouths were in the low priced field; but so were the entry level Fords and Chevrolets.

I drive my 54 almost every weekend and get honks, waves and thumbs-up from countless folks.... Why does the car hobby snub us?

What say you?

Cliff54