51 Brake Drums

[Eddie M]

Thanks to all for a lot of hints!

We will try again after this season next winter

With all the info you receive here, you should cut threw that job like a hot knife in butter.

[Go Fleiter]

Thanks to all for a lot of hints!

We will try again after this season next winter

[captbrian41]

Hi Go, David is right you have to get the drum off so you must cut the rivits and remove the drum. You will then be able to see all of the hub and be able to heat it accordingly. Because of the pipe that is welded onto the flange of your puller and then the plate on the pipe that holds the threaded shaft it is impossible to see what is going on with that puller. Once you have the drum off you can cut the flange that holds the rivits for the drum off or at that point  as long as you have access to the hub you might try heating in small circles right over the keyway on both sides of the drum flange while tightening the puller to see if that will work one last time.  If you choose to try pulling again you might also hit the hub on either side of the flange to loosen and stubborn corrosion holding everthing in place. Try blocking the  flange of the hub from the floor with some dunnage and wedges so as not to bend the axle shaft if you decide to hit the hub with a hammer to loosen corrosion. If not, after that my suggestion would be to make a cut with a small side grinder if you have access to one, across the flange for the drum in the same direction as the car so that part of the flange comes off in the area over the key way.That will give you access to the hub over the keyway. Then you will be able to split the hub by grinding down, one straight line on the hub to the keyway at which time the hub should spring apart slightly and come off, or at least be able to be pulled  off. Try cutting the hub over the center of the keyway as close as possible as this is where the drum is thinnest  A grinder that uses 4 1/2 wheels with a wafer wheel will work best and makes a cut no wider than what a sawsall would make, but the work could be accomplished with a sawsall as working with a grinder and wafer wheel could be detrimental to your fingers. As always work with a face shield and gloves. I hope this helps and I hope you can save the hub by applying the heat in the right spots. As I said in previous posts I was able to get the drums off in one piece with the hubs in tact with perseverence. So hang in there. I am guessing that puller was made for this job specifically but it looks like you might not be able to apply enough of a whack or enough leverage with that handle. Try blocking the  shaft the shaft of the puller the same way you have kept the drum from turning so that you can apply more leverage to the handle with say a piece of pipe over the handle or hit it with a good heavy hammer. Like David says wish we could be there to help.
good luck, captain Brian

[David Pollock]

Go :  if you really must cut the hub, remove the drum first by cutting the rivets.  Then remove the heat sensitive items, but be prepared to change the outer seal.  You could cut the hub with a "Sawzall" reciprocating saw.   Looking at the picture of your puller, I can't see what it is actually pulling on. Most bolt to the wheel bolt circle in a triangular pattern.  If I wasn't half a world away I would come and do this job for you. "Have Puller Will Travel"  dp

[Go Fleiter]

David, cutting the drum will be my problem this winter:

how can I cut the inner part of the cone without hurting the innards i.e. shoes, anchor + brake support plate or wheel cylinders.

Any hint?
Thanks!

greetings! Go

[David Pollock]

In  over 40 years, I have only cut one drum off. 

Google  .. Removing Plymouth Brake Drums.. and you will find a pictorial by me on how to get them off.  If heat is called for, it must be applied for a long time because of the mass and shape of the axle flange. Apply in a triangular pattern out towards one of the bolt holes. (Loosening the axle nuts is totally ineffective as you have learned.)

Use  a suitable puller and a face shield and be sure to support the car well.

[FourDoor]

This removal of Chrysler rear brake drums is a real problem for owners of these vehicles. I was talking to a fellow Chrysler owner the other day and this very subject came up because I was working on my brakes. BUT I had long ago lubricated the axle stubs and drum mating surfaces with silicone grease. You still have to use the strange 'Chrysler only' drum puller but my drums run off their axles when I turn in the puller jack shaft with just a hand wrench.
? ?GO, I know this won't get your drums off, but it's a warning to you and everybody else to polish those axles and put some kind of lubricant on them for future brake jobs and seal repairs. They still 'pop' off as they start to move but the effort is minimal and about the same effort as removing a wheel nut, which I also apply a smattering of grease to. (I have been known to snap off a wheel stud because of rust freezing.)
It sounds like you need a real 'intervention' as they say today. The only advice I can give is to take your car out to a deserted parking lot/car park and do some 'jack rabbit' starts in 1st and reverse with the nut backed off 2 threads and the cotter pin in place(I believe you have already done this.). The jerking of the axles using the drive train may finally break them loose. Slamming on the brakes several times as you bring the car to a halt may do the trick as well.
My elderly friend gave me these ideas. He said when the world was young and he had no money or access to a drum pulling tool, this was how he and his fellow Chyrsler enthusiasts got the rear drums to let go.?You need to have the nuts backed out a couple of threads as a 'witness'. If you succeed, the space between the nut and the drum will close up and you know you have a drum come free. The space also allows the drum to 'move' ever so slightly as the axle twists under torque. If the nut is tight the drum will have no place to 'give' in to. 

[12905]

Go:

Heat is safe to use on the hub as long as you do not attempt to heat the entire thing. It was standard practice in our dealership to use heat - carefully! Just heat along the keyway, and do it quickly with a large torch so the heat doesn't have a long time to transfer into the axle. The hub is thinnest right over the keyway and that section will expand rapidiy without transferring excess heat to the axle. If you have plenty of tension on the puller before starting to heat the hub, it will often pop loose as the heat is applied.

Brian

[Go Fleiter]

Thanks for the hint with the seal and all others!
Tried a new post on cutting. Lets see what is the catch.

Thanks again! Go

[elmo]

Go  i'm with bob , keep the heat away from the hub , remember there is an oil seal and a bearing not to far in , if you managed to heat the hub enough to loosen it , that means it would also heat the axel and that would transfer the heat to the seal and bearing ,i've removed quite few rear drums from 37, 38 39 and 54 mopars and have never had to much trouible if using the right puller , with the help of a heavy hammer

[TodFitch]

While I have not had a need to take off my rear drums yet, I was wondering after all the trouble in getting those rear drums off - is it just as hard in getting them on?? If not what makes it so hard to get off.

Ever work with a machine tool (lathe, mill or industrial drill press) that used a tapered shaft to hold the bits? Just friction at work there and they go on easy but need a tool to get them off.

The rear axle is tapered the same way. Just goes on with a nut to hold it but the tapered shaft really holds it on once it is there.

[Carmen]

While I have not had a need to take off my rear drums yet, I was wondering after all the trouble in getting those rear drums off - is it just as hard in getting them on?  If not what makes it so hard to get off.

[Bob]

Go,

I wouldn't use heat, if you have access to a good hub puller use that.  I don't know if they are available in Germany or not, but last year around this time I had to remove the rear hubs on my Plymouth.  I used the hub puller and a sledge hammer, not to mention PB Blaster.  It took a couple of days and lots of swearing, but they finally came off.

[Go Fleiter]

Having spare drums and wheel cylinders on hand now, today we tried to take the riight rear drum off. We heated for 2 hours with a welding torch and had no result.

When looking to the spare drum I wonder, how ever we could be able to heat the cone, as it shows only one third of its length outside.
Same: I wonder how to reach the inner 2 thirds of the cone if we deciede to cut it up.

Greetings ! Go

[captbrian41]

Looks good Go, hope they pop off for you. Had the occasion this past week to help a friend with his '40 Sedan's rear drums and they came off very easily.I suspect that someone  had them off before because there was never seize on the shafts. His rear cylinders showed the usual corroson on the bottom but cleaned up very nicely and went back together with no leaking and work fine. Your puller looks homemade but will do the job. Good luck captbrian41

[Go Fleiter]

57 degrees F this Weekend:
Yesterday I put together the fixtures and jigs for the great removal procedure.
Axle rests on tripod
castle nut removed, turned and skewed back leaving 3 threads free on both sides,
puller fixed on drum,
its weld- on nose is resting on stone plus wedges to take up impacts away from differential
tripod forms jig for the puller?s spindle and leads impact into a turning movement, preventing bending of spindle
neighbors Peugeot 304 protected by cover + wheel
(hope puller will not diassemble)
today three good whacks giving 5 more arc minutes.
good luck now needed.

[36 Ply]

Hello, Go-

I know some things about some things, and not much about other things, so I'm hardly an "expert".

I don't know how the Pentastars work; as long as I can post, I'm happy.

Enjoy the 42 F. weather, we are supposed to get warmer this week also.

Regards,

Pat O'Connor

[Go Fleiter]

Pat, have You been downgraded to private? They took Your pentastars... You are one of the logest time experts here...

Temp is rising here, river Rhine keep its surroundings temperature less extreme. Hope to have 42 F this weekend!
Greetings! Go

[36 Ply]

GO-

Good luck with your brake job. I also have an unheated garage (in north central Illinois), and I only change oil out there in winter, unless it is an emergency repair.

I bought several electric heaters at garage sales, and I wear insulated coveralls out there, but only if I have to.

Regards,

Pat OConnor

[Go Fleiter]

Thank You all:

Captain Brian: thats what I will do, just waiting the cold to leave a bit (unheated garage).
12905: Thanks for the acetylene hint, Brian. We will try this as 2. setup!
And Thanks, Elmo, I too only found 10 in diameter in every Ply publication.
I have spare shoes, but I was not sure of their correctness because of that strange Kanter?s asking for the measurements...My shoes too are 2 in wide, Thanks.

So I will let You know this spring how drums came off! Greetings! Go

[elmo]

Go    just in case you do need the measurements  , i have just checked a 51 diff that was given to me by a guy that was hotrodding the car , the lining is 2" wide x 3/16 , the diameter of the drum is 10" which is the same measurements as my 54  , but if you follow Brian's instructions you shouldn't need them
 

[12905]

Hi Go:

Removing these rear drums has been a problem for every mechanic who worked on Chryco products since the system was first used. In the dealership where I worked we used the following system and it worked. I don't recall ever having to cut a drum off.
a) Remove the axle nut, turn it around so the castellations face inward and run it up flush with the end of the axle. This is a very important first step. It is possible to mushroom the end of the axle slightly, and if this happens the castellations act as a very effective thread chaser and restore the threads as you remove the nut;
b) Install the puller and tighten it as much as possible. Then, if you, or your mechanic, has access to an impact wrench and an oxy-acetylene torch do the following:
- heat the hub in a thin line parallel to the axle centre line. Do not heat the hub all the way around;
- As the hub gets hot keep the torch on it and get someone to use the impact wrench;
- If this doesn't work, let the hub cool down, then re-heat in the same manner, and when it is really hot along the line give the tensioned puller a solid whack with a really heavy hammer - a couple of kg at least.

It may need patience, but this will work. Incidentally, don't bother to use a propane torch; it's not hot enough, and localised heat is the key.

Brian

[captbrian41]

Hi Go, had the same problem over two years ago when I saw brake fluid on the drivers side rear wheel. Tried all the usual suggestions but to no avail. Like you said even drove with the nuts more than a quarter turn loose, I mean loose. Finally decided to continually load up the heavy duty three legged puller and oil the shaft with Kroil, PB blaster, wd 40 and anything else in the garage. Finally perseverance payed off and they popped. I mean days but they finally popped. Just make sure you leave the axle nut in place with a few turns loose so you don't find the drum embedded in the garage wall or worse your leg. I would hit the knock arm on the puller a couple times a day first with a 2 lb. ball pean hammer and then with 5 lb. lump hammer and then with a sledge thinking the same way that worst case scenario I would have to cut them off. The only thing I was cautious about was hitting the end of the center stud on the puller for fear of hurting something in the pumpkin. A couple of well placed whacks there, were in order but do not get carried away. So take heart and give them a whack. David Pollack was very helpful in this project and you might seek his counsel. Check back on the tech portion of the website and you will see the dialogue regarding this project. I think somewhere around Oct., Nov., or Dec. '06. Good luck. They will come off.
captbrian41

[Go Fleiter]

Dear all,
called Kanter?s today to ask for a pair of reproduction rear Brake Drums for my 51 Cranbrook.
They told me to specify Brake Shoe width plus Drum Diameter.

  We were not able to get the drums off last year with every hint from this forum tried. I made my summer trip 2500 km with the drum nuts loose 1/4 turn hoping to shake the drums off. Still not loose!

So, maybe, we will have to cut them and I would like to have replacement on hand.

Questions: which is the drum?s diameter? are there different sizes?
                which is the  shoe width? Are there different sizes?

Thank You! Go