Trunk Color - P15 thru P23

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

The blue-gray colour is what I would expect to find in an original US built 49-52.

Cars built in Windsor Ontario are body colour inside the trunk. I have no idea why this is so.

David, thanks for jumping in on this down the thread a ways.? ?I've read through the POC judging guidelines and note your specific contributions about the 1950 Plymouth which echo your posted comments in this thread.? However, I don't see any similar remarks....or at least haven't found them....regarding the P17's and P18's.? ?I do see comments on the P15's that suggest the steel grey (blue-gray it's called in the judging document) was the color of choice and that black apparently was a prevailing color prior to that.? ?

That said, back to the P17 - P18 questions.? ?Those of us looking at this seem (emphasis is still on "seem") to be seeing that Evansville P18's at least (and maybe some Canadian cars?)? had at least some trunks painted body color.? ?My first question would be....what kind of documentation would we need for POC to recognize that as a legitimate option for an Evansville car that is being judged?? And, second, if that documentation were sufficient would it be sufficient to change the content of the existing judging guidelines or is there another procedure to accomplish that?? ?And third, assuming no changes in the judging guidelines, would an Evansville P18 that may legitimately have a body color trunk typically lose points in competition under the current guidelines?

Curious minds ........ needing to know

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

Thanks Jim....will check it out.

[Jim Yergin]

If you look in the reference section of this web site at the POC Judging material, there are some comments about trunk colors for some of the years. Starts at page 30 of that material.
Jim Yergin

[Go Fleiter]

Yes, John 49PlyCC, Your shot shows very exactly my trunk?s color. Go.

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

Ping, this car is light blue, I believe in 1949 they called it "Salvador Blue".? ? This particular car was built in Detroit so fits the pattern that is being described in this thread with Detroit built cars having this "steel grayish" trunk color and Evansville built cars (and some Canadian built ones) having the trunks painted body color.? Now, our sample size for Detroit cars is much larger than our Evansville car examples so on the basis of this thread this all remains pretty much partially supported speculation.....but that's what the answer looks to be....but someone may pop in here with THE answer and set the record straight.? ?I'm curious how a judge would look at and score these two options?

[Ping]

Yes, that is the original color green/gray that was on the trunk of my fathers 49 Plymouth he had in 1950.  Hard to describle the color  greenish/grayish/bluish.  The whold inside of Dads trunk was that color.  As I remember even the bottom of the opening to the trunk where the lock goes.    What color is the outside of your 49.  I always thought they were good looking cars, espceially the dash.  And those fancy bumpers.  Wow what a car.........Ping

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

......the reinforcement cross behind the back seat and the trunk interior are medium gray, included the lid inside (original)
Greetings! Go

Thanks Go....is this the color of "medium gray" that you are describing?

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

Don't know if it is original as it doesn't seem to match any of the colors on my paint chip guide.

Answered part of my own question just by taking the time to re-read your answer....sorry 'bout that. ? ?It would be of interest to see a photo of the "green" that you are describing.  ?

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

My 52 P 23 four door has the trunk and interior of the doors, walls, and structural members painted the same green as the outside.? Don't know if it is original as it doesn't seem to match any of the colors on my paint chip guide.? If it is a repaint it is a very complete one with door jams and all.

Plymouthcranbrook.....does your '52 still have the firewall tag?   It should tell you where the car was built.   That would be good to know too.    And, are we talking a non-mopar green or are your describing an original mopar green?

[Go Fleiter]

My empire maroon (supposedly repainted in the 60 ies)  P23 / 1951 FIN 12 657 148 is Detroit made.
Convertible Body 104- 1747 is from Briggs Detroit. The front seems to be Plymouth built, less the windshield frames. So, on the engine compartment side the firewall is red (original), Fenders and cross members are black (no idea if original) as is the radiator.
Firewall inside is black and the floor too (both repainted)
doors and quarter panels are red inside,
the reinforcement cross behind the back seat and the trunk interior are medium gray, included the lid inside (original)
The frame and underside of floor is heavily repainted with rust protection.
In parenthesis You find my estimation, the trunk has another maybe untouchesd finish than the rest of the car.
My fotos are useless because of bad light.
Greetings! Go

[Plymouthcranbrook]

My 52 P 23 four door has the trunk and interior of the doors, walls, and structural members painted the same green as the outside.? Don't know if it is original as it doesn't seem to match any of the colors on my paint chip guide.? If it is a repaint it is a very complete one with door jams and all.

[Bill Davis]

I have been talking with several Mopar-types, and it is my understanding that through
1957, the interiors of trunks and under hoods were painted this "steel gray".
However, my P-23 (built in Evansville) is painted the following way:  Under hood is
gray.  In the trunk area, the trunk lid and trunk floor are body color.  The wheel
wells, inside of fenders and under rear shelf are steel gray.  But, I do not know why this
is the way it is.  Car has been in our "extended" family since 1954, but I do not know
its complete paint history

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

Thanks....that supports our proposition that some trunks were in fact painted body color.....at least in one plant.  We are also seeing some evidence that P18's built in Evansville had the trunks painted body color as well.   Our sample size is small so far however, so its a question we are pursuing.   

In that vein.....I would appreciate anyone with a P18 take a look at the original color of their trunk paint and report that plus where the car was built.    Similar information from any other P15 - P23 would be appreciated as well.   

[David Pollock]

The blue-gray colour is what I would expect to find in an original US built 49-52.

Cars built in Windsor Ontario are body colour inside the trunk. I have no idea why this is so.

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

mvair.........Yes, that does help.? ?Thank you.? Your explanation gives me a better "big" picture look at how the various paint colors/types were likely applied and provides something else to consider as I document my cars and figure out how other P17 and P18 models (and P15, P19, P20 and P23's for that matter) were painted.? ?

Have any of the technical advisors for POC pulled together a year specific technical bulletin of the "stuff" they know about the cars they are technical advisors for?? At the moment I'm thinking trunk painting but soon it will be .......... whatever it might be.

I would assume that a technical bulletin for 1941's would look and sound a lot like what you have just provided me for your '41.? ?It would seem to me that POC could use such a tool if something like that doesn't exist.? ? Or, it may exist in some other form, through some other documentation that I'm not finding.? ?I'm just thinking that a compiled document of the "small stuff" would go a long ways to helping to keep some of these cars as original as possible.? ?I went through several thousand photos that I've collected on P17's, P18's, P19's and P20's for instance and find very few of them with what truly look to be original trunk colors and trunk mats.? However, thats admittedly a biased observation because there is a lack of trunk photos being posted as well.?

And, yes....it would be wonderful if you would share the formulation for that blue-steel color used in painting many of the trunks.? ?

[mvair]

I don't know if this will help but will provide the information I have for a '41 P12. The trunk was painted black along with the bottom and floor of the car. Everything under the upolstery was a red primer with over spray from a variety of sources. It looks like all the undercoat and such was painted and then the body color was painted with overspray allowed in all the areas that would be covered by upholstry, floor mates, etc. All of the body finished color sheet metal that was bolted to the body (i.e. fenders, hood panels, toe board) were painted the blue-gray color you mention on the "non-color" side. This was the case on the inside of the fenders and underside of the hood. This blue-gray underside paint looked like it had a gloss finish. The bolt-on toe board was painted the same blue-gray color on both sides. I have the Chromabase mix formula (base on the '41 color) for this blue-gray color if you are interested.

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

The question of what the original paint was for the trunk of P18 came up on another board I participate on.? ?So, I thought I'd bring the question over here and bounce it off all of you.? ?We have several examples where the trunk color appears to be a steel gray or bluish gray throughout including the inside of the trunk lid, the fender wells, floor of the trunk, trunk dividers and other interior surfaces.? ?We are pretty sure because of the number of examples that have this combination that this was a fairly typical paint color used for these trunks....at least for the P18's.? ?We also have at least two credible examples where the trunk color pretty much matches the exterior color.? ?Both of these latter P18 cars seem to be original (at least on the interior surfaces of the trunk) and their trunks are certainly body color.? ?Does anyone know if our observations and assessment of "original" in both cases is true?