David Pollock: Your article "Brakedrums"

[captbrian41]

Hi David, I'm sorry that you think there might be a problem being associated with such a problem. I would have hoped that you would enjoy helping out with the information you've provided. All of the comments only help to ease the process and make it easier to come to a successful conclusion. You're article and comments have been a big help and while I won't be able to work on the car till mid Jan., I will be armed with the knowledge to get this drum and hub off and possibly be able to drive the car again soon. Thanks to all who have contributed it is all useful information in the scheme of things.
thanks and Happy New Year Captbrian41

[David Pollock]

I am really sorry about having my name connected to such a frustrating problem, however, I hope I have been more help than hindrance.  I have never, except in two cases already mentioned, had much trouble removing rear hubs, and I have done it many many many times over a 40 year period.

Of course heat will cook the seals and could travel up the axle shaft.  Beating things excessively with a hammer is not going to do anything any good either. I  generally have spare parts available, so if I were faced with a badly stuck hub tomorrow, I would probably cut the rivets and remove the drum then try the puller again on the hub and heat the hub in the vicinity of the keyway.  As a last resort, I would cut a pie shaped section out of the flange and then cut the hub off being very careful not to damage the axle.
On the 41, the outer seal number is National 5797 . I do not know how easily they might be obtained or where.
Good Luck.

[p4jim]

I was told by an old mechanic a few years ago to loosen the axel nut 1-2 turns and drive around the block.  I have not done this but might try it after the big hammer.  According to him they used this method and would hear an audible thump when the drum came loose.
Thanks to all who have contributed to my Plymouth education.  I have picked up many ideas from unexpected places in these posts.  jimg

[John Hendricks]

another thought--haven't tried it but it might help.   The 1 1/4 nut should have been torgued to around 150 , acc to the manual when it was tightened.  driving around some corners with the nut just touching and the cotter in may well get it loose.  If that doesn't work , could one obtain some dry ice and pack the hub and wheel with the dry ice?  Then try the puller again after everything is chilled down.  Chilling shouldn't hurt the seals and bearings like heat would.

[captbrian41]

Ok David, all that having been said am I better off heating in the area of the key and expanding the hub at that point or trying to heat the whole hub that can be seen. What will happen to the bearings with heat and will I be able to get new ones if the old are damaged.  And while I'm on the subject what about seals and anything else that might be damaged by heat.  How much hammering can actually be done on the end of the shaft or the hub pulling tool without doing damage to the internals in the pumpkin. thanks again for all your info.
captbrian41

[David Pollock]

The only thing that holds the hub on the axle is the 1 1/4 nut and the effect of a taper.  In over 40 years, I only ever had to cut one hub off, and that was from an axle which had sat out in the rain and snow for years.
I did apply heat after loading up the puller on another job.  Make sure the axle nut is threaded onto the end of the axle with a space to allow the hub to "pop" but enough to keep anything from flying across the room. (Unlikely, but why take a chance)   The actual hub is a lot larger than it appears from outside the drum and must be heated in kind of a pie shape to allow the taper to expand.

  Should you decide to remove the drum by cutting the rivets, it will make it possible to effectively heat the hub but you will need to mount everything in a lathe to get the drum centred on the hub again.  Good luck and take all appropriate personal safety precautions.

[captbrian41]

Hi David, I just tried removing the rear drums on my '41 Business Coupe and they did not budge. Let me preference this discussion by first saying that I am a retired Steamfitter (pipe fitter, welder, fabricator, mechanic ) and I know how to hit things with a heavy hammer. I borrowed a Hub-Drum puller, industrial grade from a local shop. I attached the puller to the rear drivers side drum, tightened it by hand, placed the knocker on the center tightening bolt and proceeded to tension it with a 2lb ballpean hammer. I hit it till  could not get anymore turns out of it and then proceeded to to hit the center hub of the tool, each of the arms and the center bolt to no avail. I then tried a 4lb lump hammer and when that produced the same failed attempt I tried a 10lb sledge hammer. This thing would not budge. I then tried the pasenger side with the same results. I am now thinking that if the center hub is not held in by some sort of snap ring that I cannot see, this is being held in place by years of rust and corrosion as my car came out of the North Western part of NY and spent winters on roads that were salted years ago. Has heat been used to loosen these hubs and is that doable or would I be better off removing the rivits, rebuilding the wheel cylinders and dealing with the aftermath or do you have another suggestion.
thank you captbrian41 Brian Kearney

[David Pollock]

I hope my pictorial which can be seen by googling< Removing Plymouth Brake drums > has been of some help. I have always used a puller , which is clearly visible in the pictures.

As mentioned,  it is important to protect the axle threads by putting the nut back on until it is level with the threads.

When I oiled the taper before reassembly, it made it a lot harder to get the unit off the next time.

I never hit the axle directly, because the puller hub is designed to be struck with a hammer. Remember, there is a metal block between the axles.  I broke one on a 63 model and therefore could not set the axle bearing end play until it was repaired.

It is worth cautioning all who attempt this proceedure to wear suitable eye protection.  best wishes ,  David

[MRR41 COUPE]

Thanks ELMO54, removing the nut sliped my mind, thanks again. Putting the nut back on very loose will save your threads as also mentioned by John.

[John Hendricks]

another thing u could try before u whale on the end of the axle with a big hammer---put the nut back on but just finger tight.  then go drive around the block-slowly- and the drum may well have worked it way loose enuff that the puller will work.  When u put it all back together, put some grease on the taper so moisture won' t work into the joint.

[elmo]

MRR41  hitting it with a hammer is what you have to do, but first you should remove the axle nut and put it back on backwards with the castelations facing inwards,so that it just covers the end of the axle to protect the threads,. Cptbrian the drum and centre come off in one piece and if your shoes are released right off you should'nt  damage anything

[MRR41 COUPE]

I have a 41 plymouth and have pulled the rear drums off several times. The drums  are taper and are keyed to the shaft. They have to be removed with a puller by using the threaded wheel bolt holes. I made my own puller to match the bolt pattern. I've seen the puller that is made for this several times on e-bay. Even with the puller my drum would not come off without giving the center of the puller a good hard  hit with an 8lb hammer (A NO NO but I HAD TO DO SOMETHING). The hub then popped off.  Just be care full of the threads on the axile shaft

[captbrian41]

Hi David, I'm doing the same thing, my rear drivers wheel cylinder gave up the ghost and leaked all over the floor. I have the Detroit Iron cd of the Plymouth Service manual from '36 to '42 but it doesn't tell you how to pull the rear drum and I don't want to break anything. Have the shoes released but I can't get the drums to budge and seeing the key leads me to suspect I need a puller of some sort. Does the drum and center hub come out in one piece or does the drum come off seperately. Seams like you should be able to get it off easier than pulling the bearings. I have a '41 Business Coupe and I would post a picture if some one tells me how. I have one in my camera that I can email or put in my computer and email it or post it.
thanks captbrian41

[Go Fleiter]

sorry for sending so much air....

[Go Fleiter]

Dear David, just printed Your article for my mechanic. Last Year we did?nt succeed in taking the rear drums off.
Please, what is rhe small chrome lever in front of your left rear fender, just in the running board, for? Does it release the board or maybe the fenderskirts? Thjanks ! Greetings! Go