Informational Poll

mrodady · April 16, 2007, 10:33:00 PM

Thanks Dennis, I'm blushing...

Quote from: Dennis Hemingway on April 16, 2007, 04:45:37 PM
Quote from: mrodady on April 14, 2007, 10:27:19 PM
sure we can..... and after this mornings car show in beautiful downtown Barstow CA? Where my '49 took "most orriginal", while competing with a 55 Chevy 150 four door sedan, a '29 Ford Coupe, a '65 Caddy among others.....I'm happy.
mrodady should be proud also, He has a great looking car, I know because I was one of the judges at the show.
Dennis 8)

48ply · April 16, 2007, 09:29:19 PM

I think,,,and it's getting harder as I grow older, that alot of us Plymouth owners are proud of owning the cars we have, and are happy to be able to belong to the POC even though we have not kept our cars completely original. We all have different reasons for having the car that we have , and have different requirements (even if only in our own minds) as to what we want the car to be.? A completely original car is a luxury that many cannot afford,due to their use of the car, or the travel to get to shows without trailering. Well they can't, and should not be judged as? the original is judged, and if there is not a different class for the modified, than they should accept the fact of being in good company.
To have an original is great. To have a modified is great, if it's a Plymouth, keep it a plymouth.

A Happy plymouth owner,
AL

chetbrz · April 16, 2007, 08:12:16 PM

Mrodady,

Congratulations on a great show.? I have learned one thing from my quest to understand the personalities of Plymouth Owners.., and what really stands out is?, in general most Plymouth and Mopar enthusiasts love to see these old cars at shows or on the road.?

JimCno stated why can?t we all get along.??? That?s my question.? Whether purest, daily driving enthusiast, or both?, the ultimate goal is the same, preservation of our old cars and the history they bring to the table.

I think we may at times get caught up in the extreme of our ideals and sometimes forget that we are basically all saying the same thing.? I think that most people say they don?t care about judging but judging is somewhat tied to acceptance and appreciation.? The loan wolf says?, I don?t care because I took this basket case and saved it for another generation.? Maybe it is not factory perfect but without me it would have gone to the crusher or lived out it?s live as lawn art.? Not really a bad thing when you consider that Plymouths were created as a low price car and a number of Plymouth restorers are on a low price budget.

I think that most of us no matter what our ideal is feels glad that the car is still out on the road or in public view.? ? I think the Plymouth Owners Club is a club that is about Plymouth owners and hopefully all Plymouth owners.? That is the reason I joined the POC and I sincerely hope I wasn?t wrong in my thinking.? To date I have experienced nothing that has changed my mind.? I have just met a group of people who are very passionate about their cars.

Sorry for rambling?? Chet?

?

Dennis Hemingway · April 16, 2007, 04:45:37 PM

Quote from: mrodady on April 14, 2007, 10:27:19 PM
sure we can..... and after this mornings car show in beautiful downtown Barstow CA? Where my '49 took "most orriginal", while competing with a 55 Chevy 150 four door sedan, a '29 Ford Coupe, a '65 Caddy among others.....I'm happy.

mrodady should be proud also, He has a great looking car, I know because I was one of the judges at the show.
Dennis 8)

Plymouthcranbrook · April 16, 2007, 01:32:59 AM

I am a fan of stock from the factory. Not over restored as if a one off but a real car that someone would have bought and driven for themselves and their families. In that respect I never have been a Hot Rod lover. Admire the tech skill but really not interested. Do like cars with correct period modifications(split maifolds on flatheads or dual carb set-up for example). As far as the newer Plymouths I recently purchased a 1980 Volare Special with about 9,000 miles and have received a little kidding about my choice of cars(Don't get it wet it will desolve, etc), Not unwelcoming but it seems that maybe for some the newer Plymouths aren't really what we are about. I have to say it is a little difficult for me to get used to as well. I also have a 52 Cranbrook so I do see both sides. Being 56 years old the 1952 seems more like a classic that the other. Still to each his own and for me, I like both ways, newer and older.

mrodady · April 14, 2007, 10:27:19 PM

sure we can..... and after this mornings car show in beautiful downtown Barstow CA Where my '49 took "most orriginal", while competing with a 55 Chevy 150 four door sedan, a '29 Ford Coupe, a '65 Caddy among others.....I'm happy.

JimCno · April 14, 2007, 10:49:16 AM

"what are you trying to say?

Ah-ha... I guess I did ramble and beat around the bush. I was trying to be diplomatic. I guess what I'm trying to say is "Can't we just all get along?"

mrodady · April 13, 2007, 11:28:04 PM

after a friday night of hanging with friends in the local pub...... what are you trying to say?

JimCno · April 13, 2007, 08:58:05 PM

I guess I have a hard time understanding the issue. People are different and have different goals. Because you prefer original cars or hot rods, Fords or Plymouths does not make one person better than another. If I join a club that is based on preserving and restoring Plymouths to their original condition, I know that when I join. If I want to modify my car that's fine. If I want to modify my car and enter it into a show judged on the premise of original, I should expect to be marked down.

I guess what I am saying is there are many clubs out there. Why do you want to join a club that you don't agree with their philosophy.
I don't see a need to make people feel unwanted if they make minor modifications on their cars and I don't think people should join a club with a stated goal and complain about that goal.

My '35 is not totally original. Under the hood is a mish-mash of parts from different years. I've never had anyone make me feel uncomfortable because my car had been modified by a previous owner, but as I said, I would expect to lose points in a judged event. On the other hand, I'm not asking anyone here how I would go about dropping a small block chevy engine into my car. If that was my goal, I wouldn't be here.

Bill Ward · April 13, 2007, 01:13:55 AM

Like so many others, we fall somewhere in the middle on this issue.? Our blue 50 club coupe was one of those cars that you dream of - one owner, stored always and no rust - just a lot of dry rot in the upholstery.? We could not find original material for the headliner, seats and panels and still feel guilty for having to use modern materials there (although they are close enough that most folks don't catch on).? We did have to redo the engine and front suspension but it hasn't been painted for at least 34 years.

The, along came our second 50 club coupe - the quintessential basket case.? It would have cost a fortune to take it back to original so we did some "soft" modifications and came up with a very nice driver - even won a couple of prizes with it.? It's no hot rod but we would expect to get docked for the modifications.? We would have no beef with the judges for the deductions.

We are lucky to have one foot in the "original" camp and the other in "whatever it takes, just keep Plymouths on the road" camp - and happy as a couple of clams to have both cars.

Bill & Betty Ward
www.oldplymouths.com

mrodady · April 12, 2007, 08:36:55 PM

I come from a family of car collectors. One of my brothers drives a 1969 Bronco, another drives a 1964 El Camino, and yet another brother drives a 1965 Malibu convertible. I on the other hand, drives a stately 1949 P 18 special deluxe. My brothers refer to to it as the 1949 ugly car, however they all truly feel that I hold a special place within the car collecting genre because I am a purist. Even though My car rarely wins a trophy and a My brother's El Camino constantly does, they'll concede that My car is the conversation piece at any show simply because My car is an unmolested, completely stock sedan. When My car was sold new it had no cigarette lighter, sun visor, or even a radio. All of these things are readily available on the Internet. I refuse to add them to My car simply because they did not come with it when it was originally purchased and as a purist I aim to keep it that way.

My car also has the original upholstery in it. The problem with that is that it is wearing thin and I worry about replacing it someday.

There is a place for those who choose to modify and there is a place for those of us who refuse to be dazzled by bells and whistles.

Wm Steed · April 12, 2007, 12:17:10 AM

I can truthfully say that during the ten plus years that I have belonged to the POC, and my membership in the Golden Coast Region of the POC since it's inception, I have not encounterd one person that was negative or judgemental regarding my Plymouth. When I attended the State meet in Santa Maria last September my car was swamped with club members, the majority of which could not believe the high degree of "restoration" the car has undergone. At the State meet my '39 was the oldest car present, because of the distance everyone had to travel to get to Santa Maria from Northern or Southern California.

I have encountered negative comments from people I have solisitated to join the POC and the comments were from people that had nicely restored early (41/54) Plymouths. Sooooo... I guess I will just keep traveling the road I have choisen, and maybe, just maybe, some of you will see my Plym at the Plymouth Nationals in Santa Maria in early May ;D ....Billl

chetbrz · April 11, 2007, 06:36:44 PM

Quote from: POC-Admin on April 11, 2007, 04:57:41 PM
As always - it is your car and you can do whatever you want with it but don't expect to enter the show field at a POC meet and win anything and PLEASE - don't fight with the judges (I have been one) they are doing the job they are supposed to do - judge how your car compares to what the factory did.

Here on the web - you got a hot-rod-Plymouth - fine - you got a sleeper Plymouth fine, all are welcome and maybe someone who wants to make a Plymouth street rod will change their minds after seeing a restored Plymouth or maybe someone who has a basket case will decide to make a rod out of it - whatever you do, have fun and do what you want not what someone tells you to do.

Mark

Mark,

I don?t believe the issue is about awards or judging.? I think it is about how our club is viewed by Plymouth Owners.? I have received a number of feedbacks from Plymouth Owners on other non-sponsored Web forums and also from non-POC sponsored events that have said that they were made to feel uncomfortable within the POC rank and file for having daily drivers that have been modified for every day street use.? ?One gentleman, whom I respect, claims he was told by a ranking POC member that if he modified his car he was not welcomed by the POC or at a POC event.?

I think the question is about image.? ?In every type of issue there are extremes on both ends.? ?POC vs. Custom Rodders but I think the larger majority of people fall somewhere in the middle.

Thus the Question:

Do you feel the POC represents the thinking of the Majority of Vintage Plymouth Owners.??

I have posed similar questions on other Forums containing large segments of Plymouth Owners.? Would you be interested in the results and feedback I have received from these posts?? If so I would be willing to share the info.? In the meantime I am just trying to understand the positive as well as the negative information I have run across on the web.?

Chet? POC Member

POC-Admin · April 11, 2007, 04:57:41 PM

I voted a few days ago and I don't think anyone would think I don't support the POC as being the best "brand" car club there is in the whole hobby. I agree with Jim Benjaminson that to judge a car we need something more than "it's cool!" as a club we need to keep our roots in judging "As it came from the factory" but be open to letting people do what they feel the need to do in order to enjoy their car(s).

If you want to win an award make sure you fit your award winning vehicle to the judges - if it is a local supermarket parking lot show - fine whatever the people who view the cars think is great wins - but with a club that promotes restoration and preservation judging for awards will always have to have some standard and the factory is the most logical to keep from becoming just another car show.

As always - it is your car and you can do whatever you want with it but don't expect to enter the show field at a POC meet and win anything and PLEASE - don't fight with the judges (I have been one) they are doing the job they are supposed to do - judge how your car compares to what the factory did.

Here on the web - you got a hot-rod-Plymouth - fine - you got a sleeper Plymouth fine, all are welcome and maybe someone who wants to make a Plymouth street rod will change their minds after seeing a restored Plymouth or maybe someone who has a basket case will decide to make a rod out of it - whatever you do, have fun and do what you want not what someone tells you to do.

Mark

Wm Steed · April 11, 2007, 12:44:22 PM

I cast my vote on this topic many days ago, at the time I did not feel a comment was nessessary, however, I have since changed my mind.

As I see it..... like it or not the POC, and other "old car clubs" are quckly evolving from groups of people that are dedicated to the preservation of automobiles that were made fifty plus years ago..... to people and their cars that are actually "modern machines" that are suited for travel at hiway speeds in air conditioned comfort. If I was interested in Road Runners and Fury's I would restore them to factory spec's because it would be crazy to not do so.

When it comes to the cars that are fifty plus years old, a person has a decession to make, dead stock or modified...... If one is located in the Eastern U.S. where travel is more condensed and traveling to a car show a hundred miles away is a big deal, then a dead stock 1933 WHATS-IT is just fine, however, in the Western U.S. where travel to a car show can mean a trip of several hundreds miles through the desert and/or mountains that rise above 8,000 feet, then the vehicle of choice needs all the help it can get.

Cars that are chopped, channeled and slammed to the ground with a big blown hemi sitting in the engine compartment leave me cold, but I respect the owners right to do that if it lights his candle. As for me I like sleepers, cars that look stock, yet safely go like rocket ships when the need arises..

I currently have a '63 Chrysler 300 2dr HT, 383 V8 with less than 90,000. miles on it that I purchased over a year ago. The car was a one owner vehicle that had been garaged it whole life in the Los Angeles area and was near dead stock, I rescued the car from a guy that slammed it to the ground and was in the process of turning it into a "Grundge Rod", Low Rider. I took off all his modifications, finding everything that he had discarded to return the car to stock on cars located in Twin Falls and Salmon, ID....... the car is now a pleasure to drive at freeway speeds. I also have resently rescued a '31 Plymouth PA that had been turned into a "SAW CAR", ie; body cut off at the cowl so a wood saw could be mounted to the chassis and transported to project sites.. Mechanically the car is complete and dead stock.... I am currently trying to find a body for it. Do I intend to modify the PA?.... only to the point of which kind of a body I put on it. I would prefer a coupe or a 2 dr. sedan, but I might have to settle for a sedan body. One fellow I know suggested that I build the PA into a station wagon.... problem is, according to the info I have there were no station wagons in the PA line....Bill

Cliff54 · April 11, 2007, 07:04:30 AM

I like the cars the way they came to us... I can respect the people who for some reason "hot-rod" or "chop" :-\
I don't understand choping, but I can respect the amount of time and talent to do such things. I like to have a "Driver" and do not own a "trailer Queen" but I guess for those of you here that do, I respect you too. I can Identify with Barry McGuire in this way... I believe the Hobby as well as our little band of "Plymouth Owners" can learn things from all sections of our Hobby. I saw a 1954 Plymouth Savoy last Sunday on "My Classic Car" and it was a Hot Rod .. but I was happy to see that Someone out there cares for the 54's the way I do... but just in a different way ;)

Cliff54 "POC Member"

chetbrz · April 10, 2007, 07:48:39 PM

Quote from: Roadcuda on April 10, 2007, 07:17:21 PM
While I prefere to keep my cars as they were when they left the factory, I know that not everybody else believes in that.? I'm a member of a website dedicated to the 69 Roadrunners and we have had seveal lively discussions on this subject.? I think that the guys who think like me are probably in the minority.. It seems that most of them prefer to modify their cars for what they are, a high performance car.? But the general concensus is that a car is yours to do with as you please and I respect that.? ? I think that there is room for both ways of thinking on how you restore your car.? ?You just have to decide what you want to do with your car, then decide what club fits your way of thinking.? ?I also want to keep the Plymouth name on the road for as long as possible, and I hope that most of them are shown as the factory delivered them.? If they must be modified, I hope it's at lease done tastefully so that there is no doubt that it's a Plymouth.

Wow..!? I can?t believe that Beep, Beep is going to be 40 years old.? I remember when they hit the street.? Could you grace us with a picture?

Chet?

PS? I am sorry I let my 67 Satellite Convertible go..,? even though the RR would kill me in the quarter mile.?

Roadcuda · April 10, 2007, 07:17:21 PM

While I prefere to keep my cars as they were when they left the factory, I know that not everybody else believes in that. I'm a member of a website dedicated to the 69 Roadrunners and we have had seveal lively discussions on this subject. I think that the guys who think like me are probably in the minority.. It seems that most of them prefer to modify their cars for what they are, a high performance car. But the general concensus is that a car is yours to do with as you please and I respect that. I think that there is room for both ways of thinking on how you restore your car. You just have to decide what you want to do with your car, then decide what club fits your way of thinking. I also want to keep the Plymouth name on the road for as long as possible, and I hope that most of them are shown as the factory delivered them. If they must be modified, I hope it's at lease done tastefully so that there is no doubt that it's a Plymouth.

Jim Benjaminson · April 10, 2007, 09:48:37 AM

Remember - the club was founded to "promote the correct and authentic restoration" of Plymouths. Club judging is based on that premise and thats what the club is about.

DENNISKS · April 09, 2007, 11:08:45 PM

I guess a lot depends on your perception of Vintage. Many car clubs consider anything 25 years or older to be Vintage. Lets see that makes it about 1982. I like to think it is pre WII. But that is just my opinion.

The knowledge I have recieved on here is great. I feel no other place has the collection of knowledge about Plymouth cars no matter what year. We are all in the same boat. "Plymouth Lovers"

We all are here to help each other. And to have others help us understand more about our cars.

Dennis

Mopar Al · April 09, 2007, 02:13:37 PM

To my knowledge, Our club does not require a car to be Original. We enjoy ALL Vehicles.

" Mopar Al"

49plymouthclubcoupe · April 08, 2007, 12:52:25 PM

I enjoy the POC magazine.? ?And, I have gotten great response on this website every time I've posted.? ?And generally those answers come in a very timely fashion.? However, I have seen some posts seeking information that languish for reasons that are unknown to me.? I think every well intentioned post deserves a response of some sort in a timely fashion even if its a redirect to another person, organization or website.? ?

I believe the foundation of the POC group should be OEM design and equipment but I also believe there should be ample room for folks who want to modify their cars and enjoy them in that way as well.? ?I know several Plymouth owners locally who love their cars but do not join POC because of a real or perceived notion that the only ones wanted in the group are those solely focused on OEM features and restorations.? ?I think we need both "hats" here.? I for one want to see Plymouth's remain on the streets and in the public mind for as long as possible regardless of their configuration.? ?

Roadcuda · April 08, 2007, 12:34:41 PM

I have been a menber since 1982 starting out with a P 12, but have now progressed to the cars of my youth, those in the 60's. I love to drive both the 69 Roadrunner and the 64 Barracuda. I do some car shows but mostly I go to cruise ins. One in particular features Mopar muscle. While I'm not out for trophies, I did win a first in A-bodies with the Barracuda at an all mopar show which was a pleasant surprise. This is not a complaint, but so far I haven't seen a lot of articles for the later cars and I hope they will be coming in the futrue. When I look in the ads, there is very little there for the later cars, and I understand that the club has no control on who advertises. Overall though I do enjoy receiving the Bulletin to see what else I can learn about my favorite car. One thing for sure is that it will be hard to please everyone now that there are so many different years of Plymouth to choose from.

mopardave · April 08, 2007, 09:55:00 AM

I drive my cars and have fun with them now. I very rarely do shows anymore. The use is taking its toll on them, but I am at the age now where I would rather enjoy them by driving rather than sit in a car show all day.

Go Fleiter · April 08, 2007, 09:01:52 AM

I?m in the middle of the spectrum too, as I USE my Plymouth to travel.
Next tripe is 10 days to a resort near Innsbruck, Austria , some 550 mls south from D?sseldorf. One Way by Autotrain, return by mostly Highway. Next in July is Autotrain D?sseldorf- Fr?jus / C?te azur, France. So I modify with 12 V starter circuit plus extra electrical Gas pump to fight vapor lock for easy, reliable starting luxury (2 6 V Batteries while keeping 6 V system otherwise).
I use a 12V radiator Fan and a GPS guiding system .
I put cheap electrical window motors to the rear quarter windows to avoid turnig my back too much - I?m 56 now and will hopefully drive the car many more years.
For safety reasions, my rear brake + direction lights are high output LEDs (selfmade voltage regulation and print boards) plus a third brake light to clip on the trunk lid for driving Autobahn. I take it off when taking slow roads.

For respect to the age of my car, I haven?t drilled any holes but kept everything original. One day, one can take off all my gimmicks and reassemble to perfectly original condition. Greetings! Go

elmo · April 08, 2007, 03:59:14 AM

I don't know if it represents the majority ,but i have been involved with Chrysler products for the last 45 years (mostly Plymouths). In the last 12 months i was talked into getting with the times and getting a computor( still learnig its not as easy or as simple as working on a Plymouth, wrong generation) and the POC site is one of the best that i have discoverd, it caters for those that modify there cars to the purists , which i would class my self some where in the middle......Rex

David Rainville · April 07, 2007, 03:51:22 PM

It's a broad spectrum to cover, old car guys and newer ones, but there's something to learn from everyone, participating and sharing is the key, I feel.

chetbrz · April 07, 2007, 12:30:50 PM

I am very curious about how the membership of this Forum feels about the Question posed above.? ?This poll is not meant to create a confrontational discussion about this subject and simply created to capture the general feeling of this Board's Membership.

No responses are necessary with your vote and post only if you feel it necessary but please Vote.!!!?

Tks, Chet?? POC Member