1954 Plymouth Belvidere

Carla · March 31, 2007, 10:13:43 PM

I've been through a few 'stuck' engines on these, and found that they were 'individual' in their level of 'stuckness'. A couple of them came 'unstuck' easily, and seemed to run more-or-less alright with just the oil replaced.

Others, tho........well, sometimes those engines can be well and truly stuck.

If yours is 'well stuck', as in you can't free it up by leaving penetrating oil ('Kroil oil' or equivalent) in the bores for a week or two, and then taking off the flywheel underpan, and prying on a flywheel tooth with a long heavy screw driver rested against the bell-housing, it must come at least partially apart.

A realistic way to deal with a stuck engine is to have the head and pan off, then inspect the bores. It sometimes happens when an engine is in long storage that the head gasket will corrode, and allow coolant water into the cylinder. If that happens, the victim cylinder will have bad rust, which must be removed by scraping before the piston will move up. The usual sort of old style scraper used for fitting up babbited bearings will work, or just grind a scraper from a triangular file.

If several bores are badly rusted, getting the pistons out will not be easy. After scraping/sanding the rust, and using a ridge-reamer on the top ridge area, have the rod caps off, and try to lift the pistons one by one (assuming the engine is still in the chassis) with a little hydraulic jack, and suitable block of hardwood. Take care to avoid scarring the crank journal surface as you lift the rod. After the rod moves up 1/16" or so, lower the jack, and place a little shim of thin aluminium, cut from a soft-drink can, between the rod and the crank, to protect the journal surface, then lift again.

With luck, after two or four pistons have been removed by this 'brute-force' technique, the engine will turn, and the others can be removed normally.

After having a look at the bores and crankpins, make the decision as to whether you wish to pull the engine for a proper rebuild, or whether you think you can 'get by' with just a re-ring/new rod bearings 'overhaul'. If the latter, read on......

Pack the area over the crank with clean rags, and hone the bores with a 'glaze-breaker' type of hone......a 'spring-hone' or the 'abrasive berry' type, using kerosene as a honing-oil. Use a slow speed (500 rpm or less) drill-motor to drive the hone, and get a nice 'cross-hatch' finish by just 'blipping' the drill-motor as you move the hone up and down fairly rapidly in the bore.

After doing a nice clean-up honing operation on the bores, inspect the bores closely. If they look good, with no or only very minimal pitting, and are within .005-.007 or so for taper, you can opt to use the bores 'as is'. If the bores are scored, badly pitted, or show bad wear, the engine has to come out for re-boring. If they're alright, read on......

Inspect the pistons........the rings will almost certainly be rusted solidly into the ring-grooves, and will be difficult to remove without damage to the pistons. Look very closely for cracks in the ring groove area of the pistons.....if any ring lands show cracks, you'll need new pistons. Check the little-end bushes for looseness.....those are a common wear area in these engines, and should be renewed if the piston is even a little bit 'shaky' on the rod.

If the pistons and little-end bushes are good, clean the pistons well, carefully cleaning out the ring-grooves with a 'ring groove cleaning tool', or with broken ring pieces ground to a cutting-edge. Ensure that the new rings are free in the grooves, but put the new rings in their bores temporarily to check the ring end-gaps......min .005-ish, a little bit more won't hurt.

Clean out the block and crank with solvent and rags.....this is not quite the nastiest job in the world, but close enough.......having to do a rumenotomy on a 'plugged-up' bovine, for example, is even worse......if you've never had this experience, appreciate your good fortune.... : )

Have a good close look at the rod journal surfaces of the crank......any scoring?.....more than .001-.0015 out of round? Any little scars from the rod striking the journal at disassembly? If any scars, polish them down. If the crank is scored, or worn out of round, then there's nothing for it but that the engine has to come out, and the crank has to be re-ground.

If the journals check out as 'good', put the piston/rod assys back in, with new rings and rod inserts, using some grease, or, better, 'assembly lube' on the rod bearings. Torque the rod bolt nuts to 45-ish lbs, on clean, lightly oiled threads (or use red Loctite on the threads, as a 'safety factor' against them possibly coming adrift)

Clean the oil pump screen carefully, clean up the oil pan, and re-assemble.

Spin the engine over with the starter awhile before putting the head on. Ensure that there is good oil pressure in the oil gallery so that the oil is surely getting to the bearings.

Before putting the head on, verify that the valves are moving up and down freely, putting a little squirt of oil on the valve stems helps. If some valves are stuck open, oil the stems and drive them down gently with a soft hammer.....turn the engine over, and drive them down again, if needs be, until they operate freely.

Clean the gasket surfaces well, and put the head on, with a new gasket, of course. Torque down the bolts/stud nuts, going over the pattern several times to bring the torque up gradually to spec.

At this point, assuming you've done whatever may be needed with the ignition and carbie, the engine should start and run.

Its really not as bad a job as it might seem from reading about it......really it isn't.......really......

cheers

Carla

brucepine · March 29, 2007, 10:20:37 PM

I have suggested this for "stuck"/"frozen" engines several times. Here we go. Remove spark plugs. Pour 1 cup of diesel fuel in each hole. Let it sit for one week. Remove the fan and pulley. GENTLY apply SLIGHT clockwise and counterclockwise effort to the crankshaft with a socket wrench. If it does not want to rotate with normal human arm strength, add more diesel and let it sit for another week. When/ If it does move the crank pulley, even 1 or 2 degrees, add more diesel fuel to each cyllinder and just nudge the rotation of the crank pulley in small incriments, back and forth. Be careful and you will eventually have a free turning motor. In the extreme case of "frozen" motors, remove the head, add diesel fuel, WAIT for many days, tap each piston gently with a 2X4 wood block and hammer to free the frozen rings. Do the same gental back and forth rotation. Do not force/muscle any of this process. Be sure to drain the crankcase and add fresh oil before trying to start the engine.

49plymouthclubcoupe · March 29, 2007, 12:54:57 PM

I just bought a complete engine rebuild set at NAPA. Delivered in 1 day.

Captain Cranbrook · March 29, 2007, 07:44:50 AM

I've done a couple of them myself and been involved with a few others. I got one engine to turn and crank after taking it apart....it wouldn't start because of stuck valves. The other wouldn't move even after dismantling it, and before I could dig deeper a great deal on a used motor came along so I dropped that into the car instead. Some others turned after just soaking; another broke free the 'cave-man' way by pushing the car to about 30 MPH and letting out the clutch. Broke some ring lands on the pistons but it ran. It's a matter of luck to some degree. Gaskets aren't that hard to find. Try NAPA first. You'll be surprised how much mechanical stuff is still available in parts stores, without paying 'antique dealer' prices.

Go Fleiter · March 29, 2007, 12:37:33 AM

Sent You an e-mail with my dealer?s list.
Gaskets are sold by Bernbaum, Roberts, Kanters and a lot more.
greetings! Go

Hellbilly · March 28, 2007, 11:26:57 PM

I'm guessing you've done this before. If so, did it turn over and fire up without much trouble after that? Also, how hard is it to find gaskets for this engine?

Captain Cranbrook · March 28, 2007, 09:42:52 PM

Welcome to the wonderful world of stuck Plymouth engines.? It's fairly common for this to happen on a car that sat for a while.? If you're pouring stuff down the cylinders, remember that the spark plug holes are off to the passenger's side of the engine, and not directly over the pistons, so you might want to lift the right side of the car so that any liquid flows to the left.? From my past experiences, the only sure-fire way to get one of these babies to turn is to disassemble it and hit the pistons with a hammer over a block of wood.? It also wouldn't hurt to soak the valves because they can get stuck in the guides.? Just be careful so nothing breaks and with a little luck you'll get it to move.? ?

Hellbilly · March 28, 2007, 08:47:21 PM

I was looking at rebuild kits for these motors. A little bit too much for me to pay right now. As much as I'd like to hav her running sooner than later, I'll probably concentrate on other facets like breaking the wheels free and cleaning her up.

Go Fleiter · March 26, 2007, 01:11:01 AM

You better pull the engine and rebuild it. That are good, reliable motors! You need a service manual, and a Mopar passenger car parts list.
parts are not too difficult to find.
Consider the brakes and the steering. Brakes may be solid to the brake plate too.
Beautiful Car! Enjoy it! Greetings! Go

Hellbilly · March 25, 2007, 08:19:37 PM

Tried starting the car today. No go, wouldn't even turn over. Pulled out the radiator and tried to turn the motor manually. Nada.

So I've pulled the plugs and shot some WD40 into the holes. Will try again tomorrow. Question is, if this motor is totally seized, which it appears to be, should I just have this one rebuilt or can I swap it out for another motor say a V8? Or a different V6?

Anyhow, here are some pictures I took of the car the weekend I got it home.

Hellbilly · March 06, 2007, 11:20:42 PM

Thanks for the responses. Like I said I really don't know what I want to do with it just yet. I'll probably know more once I get it back to my house and really go over it more thoroughly and am able to get some ideas in my head. I will definently post more pics when I do get it and if anyone cares to take a look at it I sure don't mind.

oldmopar · March 06, 2007, 09:22:08 PM

As stated by the others you will find old Plymouths easy to work on parts while not reproduced as much as chevys you may have worked on in the past you will find many parts do interchance. As for information you have found one great source right here you also could look at http://oldplymouths.com/ it caters to 49-52 years but you should find some good information there also.
I also am in NJ . I recently sold my 47 Plymouth Bus coupe to a friend also in NJ. I have a 49 p15 1st series that needs to be restored so it will be a while before I have another Plymouth on the road again but I enjoy working on my cars maybe even more then driving them.
I do have 2 Mopars on the road now a 64 W300 and a 76 d100

Cliff54 · March 06, 2007, 04:42:31 AM

Hi there and Welcome aboard.
I think your 54 looks great. Those 54's EASY to work on, and you will notice a Quality in the workmanship as well. Soon you (like the rest of us) will be a MOPAR fan. 8)

Cliff54

XmikeyX · March 06, 2007, 12:33:02 AM

I have 1953 Belvedere and you can do plenty to that car to make it a cruiser.

I hopped up the flathead 6 in my car with a Edmunds Custom dual intake with two Stromberg carbs. Stewart Warner fuel pump will supply the gas. The car will be getting a 3 speed floor shifter from a 38 dodge and a B-body 3.55:1 rear end will back up the tranny. This will make the car more highway worthy. Drop it 4 in the back and 2 in the front and that car will be sweet.

And if this doesnt give you any ideas and you want to sell it ill be interested. I live in Bergen County NJ

Hellbilly · March 05, 2007, 11:12:48 PM

Yes sir those are Jersey plates. I am in Roselle Park.

Captain Cranbrook · March 05, 2007, 10:06:53 PM

Are those Jersey plates on the car? If so, what town are you in? I'm in Freehold.

Hellbilly · March 05, 2007, 09:25:59 PM

Hello there. I am obviously new here. Can yah take in one more noob?

Anywho, I just became the proud owner of a 1954 Pylmouth Belvidere. The car doesn't run but the body and interior are in really good shape so for the price I paid, I just couldn't pass it up. The car has been garage kept for probably close to 25 years and has been in the same family since it was bought new.

Here are the details I know about the car so far:

4 doors, flathead 6 and that's about it.

The car isn't in my possession yet. I pick it up this weekend. Problem is I really don't know much about Plymouths (gasp!) .? I've always been a Chevy guy and on rare occasion a Ford owner. I looked all over the wonderful world of the internet and really was surprised I couldn't find more information on these cars.

As for my plans for the car, I don't know. I'm more of a street rod/rat rod kind of person but this car is in such good condition (imo) I don't know if'n I'd want to really go toying with it too much. Plus I can't really see it being moded too much. I may just wind up selling it.

Decisions decisions.

If anyone could give me any information on this car it would be much appreciated. I am incuding the one pic I have of it. The car is a little dirty and needs a good washing once I get it home. After that I'll take more pics and post them.

Thanks !
Barry