Engine Swap in 47 Plymouth

[elmo]

Jim    you are right , i.ve done it , it was on a 54 about ten years ago , the only modification i had to do apart from reversing the radiator mounts and relocating the front engine mounts (on the 54 the xtra holes were already there) was because i was also converting it to twelve volts at the same time.   Rex

[Jim Benjaminson]

O.K.  Clarification on my part.  First, I thought all that had to be done to place a long-block in the Plymouth chassis was swap the radiator mounts to move it forward.  I assumed - perhaps incorrectly - that Chrysler would not have made any major changes and used the same frame, with the same pre-drilled holes, etc. rather than tooling two different frames - one for the USA and one for Canada so Canada could install a long block while the US plants could install the short block.  Therefore - if the frame was the same, and Canadian cars used a long block, it would stand to reason that "only" having to reverse the radiator mounting would mean a long-block could be installed in a USA chassis......but it appears I've been proven wrong (not the first time, either!)

[TodFitch]

Hi, this is Allen.  I didn't realize I was going to cause such a discussion.  I do appreciate everyone's input to my question.  I have this 47 Plymouth Club Coupe which is very nice except the engine uses oil and has a weak cylinder.  Therefore, it needs to be rebuilt.  I thought about rebuilding a 55 to 59 230 cu. inch flat head and while looking for a canidate, I was offered a Chrysler six that is in very good shape.  The price is $850, which is less expensive than rebuilding either the 218 or a 230. 

But after reading what would be involved in modifications, I have decided against the Chrysler option. 

I like the idea of getting a little more horsepower so maybe I should look at a 46 to 54 Dodge 230 engine.  This should fit right in and bolt up with no modifications needed.

Any comments?

Allen

Or, if you have the original engine in the car (even non-original but one with a P15 number on it), then you could rebuild it with the crank and rods from a 230 Dodge engine. It would fool any judge and get you the boost in power you are looking for. If you are never (never say never) going to have the car judged then that is not an issue.

For example, I was never going to have my car judged and then I did, almost as a lark. So it can happen.

[jd2ksilver]

Glad you made it back, I will say no more,,, ;D 

[Allen]

Hi, this is Allen.  I didn't realize I was going to cause such a discussion.  I do appreciate everyone's input to my question.  I have this 47 Plymouth Club Coupe which is very nice except the engine uses oil and has a weak cylinder.  Therefore, it needs to be rebuilt.  I thought about rebuilding a 55 to 59 230 cu. inch flat head and while looking for a canidate, I was offered a Chrysler six that is in very good shape.  The price is $850, which is less expensive than rebuilding either the 218 or a 230. 

But after reading what would be involved in modifications, I have decided against the Chrysler option. 

I like the idea of getting a little more horsepower so maybe I should look at a 46 to 54 Dodge 230 engine.  This should fit right in and bolt up with no modifications needed.

Any comments?

Allen

[jd2ksilver]

Actually he did come back yesterday to read it.  ( I was looking at members online, and clicked that little icon on the left to see what it does.  Let me know what people were doing somehow).  I figured he would post clarification.  Guess we may never know.

[bigaadams]

what is really funny is that Allen has not checked back in to clarify what the real intent is, the actual body that he is working with and until that time...any and all post will be just a "guessing game" and it seems to be causing more disruption than contribution...

what say we back off this till all the facts are in... (should he wish to continue this thread) that way the folks who have done these mods can weight in with thier expertise....

I also think that the power that are were in fact contacted but have not voiced an opinion...and if this type of posts are verboten..then make that well known and lock this thread...else I feel members of the forum at large should participate only in those thread they are confortable or knowledgeable..its a well known fact, right or wrong someone somewhere will have an opinion contrary to the one expressed...it is not my intent to continue this to rankle anyone in any manner..just think we can do better to promote the hobby..

[Jim Yergin]

Funny, but I read Allen's post completely opposite. I read it that he wants to install the shorter Plymouth engine in place of the longer Chrysler engine. In which case the issue of moving the radiator, etc.  would not apply. Am I wrong?
Jim Yergin

[plym_46]

What nonsense, behind what?

Did your discussion add anything to Allen's question or just criticize me for offering some that was germain to his needs, albeit in contridiction to another's opinion?

Hopefully Allen will find all the information helpful.

[jd2ksilver]

With respect;

Your pictures were great.  For a American car.  But as I said before, you were referring to Jim's post about Canadian cars.  You even felt the need to correct.   In which you were wrong.  Stand pat if you like.

If you want to win the tit for tat battle, I bow to you.  I thought I left this nonsense behind.

[plym_46]

I don't know why Jim asserted it was a canadian car, I did not have access to that information,  Allen's profile shows no location information or vehicle information, but his original post does state he is aware the engine he wants to transplant is LONGER than the current 218.  So my answer to Allen's query discounts Jim's assumption he has a Canadian built cars.

The pics I posted are for modification needed to put a 25 inch engine in a 48 Plymouth (American assembly) and should be helpful for Allen to determine what he may need to do if he has an American vehicle.

So I will stand pat.  

Do you have photos that would contradict the ones posted?? If you have another solution maybe you could post them.  Or at least detail your experience with a similar project.

Allen may also have some questions regarding crankshaft flange, flywheel and clutch issues, but we can deal with those should Allen choose to move forward with his swap.

[jd2ksilver]

Well,, no,

Your post indicated you were referring to the post by Jim, (stand corrected I think you said,) In which he specifically mentioned Canadian cars.  I don't know why Canadian was mentioned in the first place but it was.  Maybe being the moderator he has info as to where the initial poster is located.  Be good if we knew also.  The radiator move was also mentioned in that same post.



I think Bigaadams is correct in saying more info is needed prior to offering proper analysis.

[plym_46]

So without information to the contrary, my default was that the question was posed by an American owner with an American car.

Which would require relocating the radiator at a minimum, plus I believe the front motor mount bolt holes need to be adressed as the feet on the longer motors are positioned differently than the short bolcks, at least in the incidences I have seen.

So the short answer is, it is not a bolt in, but it will bolt up with some mods.

[bigaadams]

There is a whole host of issues and questions that arise in the modification of an older car..some sites are more into this and thus have membership that is in tune with these procedures.  Even given this there is the old adage about more than one way to skin a cat, well there is more than one way to do any transplant and advise given is usually by the experience of the person who had done that job..get the advice of of a number of folks and their approach and you should be able to proceed easily without having to many obstacle jump up..

my advice, be sure you have the place to work, tools and expertise to complete the task at hand or at least have in the wings those who can...keep in mind part two, every time you farm out an item/detail to a paid business etc etc..your cost go up and the chance to re-coop that goes down..

a better description of your car as the year, body and build site in your question/profile would clear confusion from the get go...the more info a person has when you ask a question, the better a "personalized" answer can be made..

[jd2ksilver]

Stand corrected. Courtesy of D Coatney's installation of a 251 DeS engine in a 48 P15

That's not a Canadian Plymouth as Jim suggested, in which the Chrysler frames were used.  The radiator does have to be swaped to the front side of the bracket though.

[plym_46]

Stand corrected. Courtesy of D Coatney's installation of a 251 DeS engine in a 48 P15









As well as repositioning the radiator.  Perhaps the longer wheelbase Dodges do not need this modification or other's have raised the front of the engine to a non stock height to facilitat the extra length.  But is gotta go somwhere if the rear motor mounts are retained.

[Jim Benjaminson]

Wasn't aware you needed to notch anything.  Canadian built Plymouths all used the long block engine and outside of reversing the radiator mounting I thought it was bolt for bolt......somebody correct me if I'm wrong!

[plym_46]

OH NO!!!  Another modification thread, what's going on here??  Looks like another one crossed his fingers when he signed up. And this on a first post.......

Follow Tim's advice and have fun.

[bigaadams]

beware the wrath of member PLYMOUTHS for making this post... ::)

that body will require you notch the front frame cross member for clearance of the lower pulley..do keep in mind room to allow the extra length plus a bit of fudge factor for future belt maintenance...usually you will have to set the radiator forward of the radiator support..

we have a member on a sister site that did this and really did a great job complete with a host of photos...follow the link..DO fill out a profile if you wish to get any real results..suggest that you do a search of the forum before asking many questions..this subject has come up many times and has been covered already and most the pictures are archived...happy hunting...and quick..duck...!!!

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

[Allen]

I am looking for information on swapping a 217 cu. inch plymouth flat head for a 54 chrysler 6 cyl. engine.  I know that the chrysler engine is 2 inches longer than the plymouth engine.  Besides this, is there anything else I should know?  Will the 3-speed transmission bolt up?   Does anyone know of this being done?    Allen