Internet POC Region, Why not ?

[ndesimone]

I was able to take time to include a few words about the Forum in my President's message for the January-February issue #306 of the Plymouth Bulletin.
I hope members will read it and take the time to "try it out". Those that use the forum know the value it has.
We all know the old adage "you can lead the horese to water but..."

I guess we'll find out if the activity level goes up any.

[POC-Admin]

I have found that the people that are computer literate assume the whole world is into the computer/internet thing.. I can assure you that the majority of the old car group is not interested in taking on the learning of the skills required to navigate around the www ... Of course I am talking about the majority of the car guys I know. In some respects the aversion to computers is an age thing... Cant teach old dogs new tricks... In other respects it is just the nature of car guys... They like the tire kicking and grease under their finger nails that the hands on experience of cars provides.
Most of my car friends think I am nuts, spending time pecking away at the key board, looking for and/or selling parts.. Of course their attitude changes when they call me up, asking me to find them a chrome plated doomafloppy for a '36 Five-door.
I am the first one to admit that If it were not for eBay, the POC.com and the assistance of the on-line contributors, my '39 Plym conv would never have gotten rebuilt....Bill

Well said and your experience matches mine.

That gentlemen pretty much sums the whole thing up.  This forum is one way to reach those people who are NOT members of the POC and hopefully entice them into joining.  That is why I volunteered to take on the maintenance and up-keep of the site.

If we start getting a younger following here on the web, we should increase the club eventually.  Having a specific "Internet" region would not really help to increase membership and visitors that are not members might feel like they must join the club to share and learn.  If we don't reach younger people who want to participate in a club like ours, we will die. 

I don't get around to looking at this board as often as I would like and I maintain the site!

[TodFitch]

I have found that the people that are computer literate assume the whole world is into the computer/internet thing.. I can assure you that the majority of the old car group is not interested in taking on the learning of the skills required to navigate around the www ... Of course I am talking about the majority of the car guys I know. In some respects the aversion to computers is an age thing... Cant teach old dogs new tricks... In other respects it is just the nature of car guys... They like the tire kicking and grease under their finger nails that the hands on experience of cars provides.
Most of my car friends think I am nuts, spending time pecking away at the key board, looking for and/or selling parts.. Of course their attitude changes when they call me up, asking me to find them a chrome plated doomafloppy for a '36 Five-door.
I am the first one to admit that If it were not for eBay, the POC.com and the assistance of the on-line contributors, my '39 Plym conv would never have gotten rebuilt....Bill

Well said and your experience matches mine.

[Wm Steed]

I have found that the people that are computer literate assume the whole world is into the computer/internet thing.. I can assure you that the majority of the old car group is not interested in taking on the learning of the skills required to navigate around the www ... Of course I am talking about the majority of the car guys I know. In some respects the aversion to computers is an age thing... Cant teach old dogs new tricks... In other respects it is just the nature of car guys... They like the tire kicking and grease under their finger nails that the hands on experience of cars provides.
Most of my car friends think I am nuts, spending time pecking away at the key board, looking for and/or selling parts.. Of course their attitude changes when they call me up, asking me to find them a chrome plated doomafloppy for a '36 Five-door.
I am the first one to admit that If it were not for eBay, the POC.com and the assistance of the on-line contributors, my '39 Plym conv would never have gotten rebuilt....Bill

[SD Glenn]

Thanks again guys, I'll learn....  I am a purist when working on my 29 Plymouth, I would like to keep it in the purist form posible, not as a show car but one I can take to the fair, or car show, or get grocerys, or where ever. However, When I am working on a Hot Rod or Street Rod Then I am definently a hot rod guy, I have build both and enjoyed both. Can a person be a purist in both hobbies? I think so. I will probably catch flax on that also, but flax slides off....
If there is going to be a Internet POC Region site I would join that to, I am a POC member and will remain so, memberships help ensure these sites will give guys like me help when needed, or a place to let off steam. lol. I enjoy Tods site and Chets site. They all have a place for Plymouth owners. Enough, Thanks again,
Glenn

[bigaadams]

Thanks for staightening me out Bigaadams,, I have not been around enough to understand the ins and outs of this site yet. Actually I thought you had to be a member to post on the Voting items. I stand corrected. I think I do not understand what the internet site would do... seems we talk about everything under the sun on the discussion board on the POC site? maybe not? Thanks
I promise to get better. lol
Glenn

Glenn, I am not sure of the POC's take on anything that pops up on this open forum, they are gracious enough to host it and I thank them,  I mentioned that I am not a POC member and thus feel that as a guest I should not be casting votes...not to say one can or cannot..items here are more open and such than I think most POC meeting/communication would be..first, being online I think this page already attracts like minded folks, not all are POC members either..and there are so many POC members who will never find thier way to this page..as the internet is not a common avenue to exchange thoughts or ideas..

The purpose of an actual internet group eludes me, personally I see that this is now if place in the form of this open forum..from what I understand the POC site pretty much dictates for a local subgroup to exist they must first exist within the national group..ie the problem..limited benefits of membership due to distance from the district/regional hub...if this page or internet group were sanctioned then a lot of folks who come here would probably leave due to the having to join the national group first and then there is the chance of flak from purists..not advocating the cut and change of any car...just not going to condemn the ones that do (unless its a brand x powered)  so here I think we get a good cross section, purist and a few modifiers and because of the common ground of Plymouth and computer skills these folks have a better chance of promoting the hobby in general.

these are just my thoughts and feeling and the why I feel I should not cast a vote..I am a guest...

[plym_46]

For those of you who would like a more lively and free flowing discussion of things Plymouth, ad other items you might want to visit the forum supported by the P15 D24 website.  While it was designed to fit the needs of the 46 -49 Dodge and Plymouth crowd, it has also welcomed just about anything that is powered by Chrysler Flatheads, and even those that used to be.

when I loged on to this site today, it noted that I and one other user were on the site.  typically the P15 D24 board will have 20 to 30 follks on.

and that site is not supported by a national club. 


Not a snub of this discussion group, but a look at the level of early Mopar interest in general.

ALso many of the folks that generally are active here are participants there.

[chetbrz]

Thanks for staightening me out Bigaadams,, I have not been around enough to understand the ins and outs of this site yet. Actually I thought you had to be a member to post on the Voting items. I stand corrected. I think I do not understand what the internet site would do... seems we talk about everything under the sun on the discussion board on the POC site? maybe not? Thanks
I promise to get better. lol
Glenn

Glenn,  

In a nutshell it would be to create a section of the board that would only be accessible to current POC members.  In this area POC members who are not associated with regional branches of the POC might discuss items associated with POC membership.  This could be accomplished in the general board but the discussions would also be skewed by non members providing input on topics that might only be relevant to POC membership.   This would allow POC members to share their opinions without these discussions aired publicly.

Chet?

[SD Glenn]

Thanks for staightening me out Bigaadams,, I have not been around enough to understand the ins and outs of this site yet. Actually I thought you had to be a member to post on the Voting items. I stand corrected. I think I do not understand what the internet site would do... seems we talk about everything under the sun on the discussion board on the POC site? maybe not? Thanks
I promise to get better. lol
Glenn

[chetbrz]

I will commit to speak about the Forum in my President's message either in the January-Februaery issue or the March-April issue.
Maybe it will entice more members to "take a look" and possbly become active participants. You never know.

Thanks Nick,

I am extremely grateful that you have founded the time to stop by and say a few words.  For those of us who are geographically detached from participating in a region this forum is our only link to the POC and the only place where we can seek out other POC members and share viewpoints and casually discuss our car projects.

I hope the POC will pay more attention to this forum because I believe that for members like myself it is great place to participate in the larger organization.

My sincere thanks,  Chet?

[bigaadams]

I think the main number of visits may well be those who are members of this forum and not he POC...as I fall in this catagory, I do not feel I have the right to actually vote on a matter that concerns the direct of the POC.  However as a visiting forum meber I will voice an opinion from time to time.  I visit to see what is going on and if it is 'techy" I get interested...posts of outings with pictures, though nice, are not my cup of tea..now pictures detailing tech data and procedures, addition to the cars, ongoing bosy work etc  etc etc...pour them on...again..this is not a reflection on anyone as they are free to post what they want..and from time to time I will view these posts...

[SD Glenn]

I agree to dis-agree, or dis-agree to agree... Whatever.
Just curious... There were only 16 votes cast, however there were 501 viewers to the site. Were they too busy to respond.. or not interested enough to reply, or just did not want to get involved. Did only the 16 voters visit the site 501 times? Whatever....
Just my thought, sorry
Glenn

[ndesimone]

I agree with most of what CHETBRZ says.
To paraphrase his comment.

"There have been a number of creative ideas presented for the purpose of making the forum a better place and if nothing else, stimulate more communication. Imagine if more POC members exchanged view points and ideas.   
Maybe if the Bulletin advertised the POC Web Forum more then the 16 regulars would log in.  I guess that additional ad in the Bulletin would cost too much money."

I think the existing Forum can be a more useful tool if more members would take advantage of it.
I don't know if I mentioned this in earlier postings, but I am the current President of the Plymouth Owners Club and have the distinct pleasure of writing a President's message for each Plymouth Bulletin issue.
As you can imagine as with any organization, there are many issues that require attention. Since there are only 6 issues each year, I have to prioritize the issues I can cover in my message.

Getting the message out to more Plymouth Club members that there is an exisiting Forum out there and to take the time at least to browse it or better yet post to it, is one of my unfulfilled items.

I will commit to speak about the Forum in my President's message either in the January-Februaery issue or the March-April issue.
Maybe it will entice more members to "take a look" and possbly become active participants. You never know.

[chetbrz]

I visit this forum numerous times during the day, post photos, comments when I think I should, but there are very few comments on the photos that I post, and usually by the same people, which is a good thing, but this forum to me, isn't fully taken advantage of the way it should be or could be.

My thoughts,

Bob

Bob,

I hear what your are saying.  I believe that there were a number of creative ideas presented in this post that were presented for the purpose of making the forum a better place and to stimulate more communication.  Unfortunately only a few people were interested in posting an opinion.  Imagine if this idea about a forum caught on and POC members exchanged view points and ideas.   There is no telling what harm that would cause. 

Maybe if the Bulletin advertised the POC Web Forum more then the 16 regulars would log in.  I guess that additional ad in the Bulletin would cost too much money.

PS?, I always enjoy your picture posts,  Chet?

[RC Drown]

I visit this forum numerous times during the day, post photos, comments when I think I should, but there are very few comments on the photos that I post, and usually by the same people, which is a good thing, but this forum to me, isn't fully taken advantage of the way it should be or could be.

Over the years that I have been a member, I have received lots of help fixing my old Plymouth from the forum members that do visit on a regular basis and I greatly appreciate all the help.

Yesterday I posted a couple of old family photos with a '50 Plymouth and a '39 Dodge truck, thought maybe that they might generate more photos of various POC members old family photos, but in about 14 hours since I posted them, the post has had six hits, don't say much for the use of the forum in my old mind.

My thoughts,

Bob

[plym_46]

Are you using this forum to tell people there is already a forum???  If so you seem to be preaching to the chior unless your are indicating another forum for POC folks.

And isn't one of the purposes of an open forum to allow folks to express thier point of view???  If we all agreed discussion would beself limiting and or boring.

[ndesimone]

Forgot to add one more fact.
The Plymouth Owners Club roster has 2927 active members and lists email addresses for 1106.
I know for a fact there are quite a few old and incorrect email addresses since that is the last item members update.

[ndesimone]

Observations.
The sixteen that voted in favor of an Internet Forum did not post a message or a comment. Does that mean they would be an active participant? I think not, In my opinoin they would have more to say than "YES" I'm in favor of it. I wonder how many of the sixteen have actually posted or have an on-going conversation with others in the past?
For those that really are in favor of a Forum, there is the Plymouth Club Forum which is available to all that want to take the time and register for it. I don't know the statistics but can guess there is only a small percentage of registered user that visit it on a regular basis.

At times over the past two years, I have been dis-heartened with what is posted on the Forum. Sometimes it seems to be a place for someone to "vent" or try to convince others of their "point of view". I would like to see if be a place for conversation and discussions on a somewhat freindly basis.
Registered users can post events in close proximity to their location to inform anyone who reads it as to "what is happening" and invite them to join in. We need to get the message out to members to utilize the Forum for what is intended.

Tod's comment that there are over 240 National members and only 66 Golden State Region members is close to factual., actually 277 national members and of that number only 79 have email addresses that are published in the Plymouth Owners Club roster.

Let's use the existing tools in place and not have another one to "lose track of".
Now I'm off my soap box.

[chetbrz]

Well this thing has been kicked around a bit, and statistically seems pretty moribund....

...While I admire your attempt to encourage some further camaraderie, it loosk like in reality it ain't gonna happen.

Mr Ply_46,

Quite the opposite.., I take great encouragement by the responses of this forum.   Considering that there were 16 votes, 13 were in favor of the concept.  That is statistically 81.25% favorable for the idea of connecting disconnected members.  I am told it takes 3 members to make a region.  I wonder what a mailing would accomplish to the hundreds of disassociated POC members that are currently enrolled. 

I would be willing to wager that half of them don?t even know that this web forum even exists.  I believe that people get involved when that involvement enriches their lives.  I think it is a shame that members can live within 10 to 20 miles from each other and not even know it.   

If anyone out there feels that same way that I do, contact me directly at .  Maybe together we can make a positive difference.

Thanks Chet? 

[plym_46]

Well this thing has been kicked around a bit, and stistically seems pretty moribund.  375 people have viewed it, and it has generated 32 responses, about 10%.  However several of those responses were fromt he same folks, so lets drop the response rate to 5%.  about the same as the number of positive votes. 

If that is the level of response a "region" would engender, it hardly seems worth the band width necessary to try to keep something afloat.

And what kind of activity would an internet region propose?

While I admire your attempt to encourage some further comroderie, it loosk like in reality it ain't gonna happen.

[36 Ply]

Ok, thanks, Mark, I'll contact Jim B. tomorrow. I was waiting until Thanksgiving was over.

Pat O'Connor

[POC-Admin]

Thanks Tod,

My most recent Plymouth Bulletin roster is the January-February 2000 issue (I didn't buy the fancy one that was offered a while back). That would be great if you would email me the member info in the towns you mentioned in your post; my email address is patdiana(at)earthlink.net. I will also access the Golden State website, as you suggested. Thanks for the suggestions.

Pat O'Connor

Pat,  Contact Jim Benjaminson - he can send you a current roster in Excel format - free readers are available from Microsoft if you don't have Excel.

Mark

[28 Ply.cpe]

The nearest regional club to me is 75 miles away and has had tough times trying to get 8 or 10 people to show up for a meeting on a given date, usually Sundays. There are many Plymouth owners in my area who would probably do internet meeting and planned club activities if everyone could email each other and make arrangements to meet.

[36 Ply]

Thanks Tod,

My most recent Plymouth Bulletin roster is the January-February 2000 issue (I didn't buy the fancy one that was offered a while back). That would be great if you would email me the member info in the towns you mentioned in your post; my email address is patdiana(at)earthlink.net. I will also access the Golden State website, as you suggested. Thanks for the suggestions.

Pat O'Connor

[TodFitch]

...snip... There are no regions, nor as far as I know, any individual members anywhere near me (50 mile radius), so my connection with the club is mainly through the Plymouth Bulletin, this forum, and emails back and forth between Bob Drown and myself. ...snip...

Another thing I set up on the Golden State Region website is an electronic copy of the national roster which I update with the spreadsheet data from Jim B from time to time. Turns out there is a national member about 5 miles from you up the road in McNabb. No car listing matches so I don't know what he has. Widening the search a bit (first three digits of the ZIP) there are members in LaSalle, Marseilles, Sheffield, Peru and Ottawa. All within your 50 mile limit. Turns out you have enough members in that 50 mile radius to form your own region.

If you are interested I can PM or email you the names and addresses. Or you can go the the Golden State Region's website at http://goldenstateregion.com/ and use your name and email/address to log in as a guest and look up things in the national roster yourself. (Better do that pretty soon as our new region president wants to start walling off things of value from non-region members.)

p.s.: The local Model A club here is open to other cars joining their tours. The Chevrolet club too. So tagging along in a Plymouth is not unprecedented.

[36 Ply]

I don't know how well this post will relate to the most recent 4 or 5 posts on this topic; some of it is just ancient history. I bought a '36 Plymouth 4 door touring sedan in 1969. About the only information I could find at the time was in my 1935-48 MOTOR's manual. I joined POC in 1975, and was thrilled to find some technical info in the Plymouth Bulletin. Due to our having the same work background, Jim Benjaminson and I started snail-mailing each other back in those years. It was aways great to receive a letter from Jim, who encouraged me in my quest to perform my own maintenance and repairs on my '36.

Fast-forward to the present day. Now, thanks to this POC internet forum, I have ready access to advice when I have a troubleshooting problem. There are no regions, nor as far as I know, any individual members anywhere near me (50 mile radius), so my connection with the club is mainly through the Plymouth Bulletin, this forum, and emails back and forth between Bob Drown and myself. It would be nice to do local tours with other POC members, if any lived close (I even emailed the director of the local Model A Ford club to see if I could tag along on their tours, but he never responded). I'm not interested in long distance tours (I was doing those in the 1980s), just local stuff. No solutions here, just a bit of background.

Regards to all,
Pat O'Connor

[chetbrz]

Tod,

You are right on topic.  People generally don?t take the initiative to get involved unless you advertise and motivate.  The concept of building it and they will come is only in the movies.  

If we could generate a campaign to get 1% of inactive members involved that would in my opinion be an outstanding accomplishment.  I think it would take encouragement by senior club management and a philosophy or culture of inclusion by all sub-regions.   You are correct; it is a slow process but maybe a worthwhile quest.   Maybe it might be a mission to save just one old Plymouth from the scrap heap by getting a high school shop class engaged in the honorable task of restoring some junk heap.   Could take years but could unit a number of disassociated members or regions in a common goal, a worthwhile quest that only benefits those involved.  

I truly believe that more people would get involved if the involvement was worth their while.  I think that what we offer is what we get in return.  I don?t know what the answer is but having these types of discussions is the start of the process.   I just wish there was a larger audience and a clear indication from the leadership of this club that this type of activity is a desirable goal.  I would think it is but who knows, I haven?t heard anything in the past couple of years that warrants enthusiasm.   What are the club goals, what is the core focus, what are we doing to encourage the hobby, provide education, generate membership and enrich all our valued members?  What is the mission statement for 2011?

I don?t have the answer but if we stop asking the question we will never figure it out.

Sorry, I am off my soapbox,  Chet?

[TodFitch]

Chet mentioned using a "Internet region" web site to announce and coordinate Plymouth owners attendance at local events.

When I set up the software that the Golden State Region uses, I envisioned members around the state either creating their own events and using the web site to publish them. Or, since many people don't have the time or inclination to create their own events, to allow them to publish events they know about. For example, say my town is putting on a Thanksgiving parade and wants some old cars then I could log on to the region web site and add an event listing. I can specify the geographical area the event is in and the server will email everyone in the region who indicates they were interested in knowing about events in my area.

What I found is that you can count the number of people that have posted events in the last 5 years on the fingers of one hand. And all of them are either current or former officers in the region.

Either I have made the system to hard to understand, not properly advertised the facility or the typical (older non-Internet savvy) region member just is not interested in this type of interactive use of the web site. We get a lot better response (more people/cars) by making telephone calls.

In any case, the experience has jaded me somewhat as to the match between computer social networking tools and the average club member. There are some very successful old car forums. And on some of those forums people have made an effort to actually meet in person. But if you look at the number of active participants on, say the P15-D24 forum, the numbers are quite low compared to the number of Plymouth owners "in the wild". And they are definitely a self-selected group. I applaud the goal of moving to new technology and for trying to engage people who have not been engaged in the past for various reasons. But I think it will be a long, slow process.

[chetbrz]

The point of this thread seems to be do we need a region that is defined by owning a computer and using the Web?  I really don't know and we don't seem to have a lot of outside or board input here - maybe we need that.

Mark

Mark,

Thanks for doing the tests it is always nice to know the capabilities.  I appreciate your involvement.  I agree with everything you said except your last statement.  I think there is a misunderstanding of the purpose of the thread.  You ask the question ??do we need a region that is defined by owning a computer and using the Web?  This is certainly not the point of this thread or the concept I envisioned as an internet region. 

I was looking for a simple way to connect POC members with other POC members in relatively close proximity.   Tod mentioned in his post ??I don't know what the situation is overall, but the national roster list 240 members in California but the Golden State Region consists of only 66 members. Rounding to even numbers, about 3/4 of the members in California are not members of the region.?  This in itself begs the question ?.  Why are they members, I suppose for the monthly magazine?  If this is the case then any effort to connect these people is futile. 

Here is an example.  I live in Virginia and have a home on the Delaware shore.  I suppose there are POC members in Delaware, maybe ?  Let?s say my small town in Delaware had an organized event that would be a nice place for a few local POC members to drive their cars to and get acquainted.   So how do you reach out to these members.?  How would I even know that there might be another POC member 2 miles away from me thinking the very same thing ? 

Maybe the computer is not the answer but what I don?t understand is that nobody seems interested in asking or discussing these types of questions.   Example ?If it isn?t broke don?t fix it.? I think the response to this poll is pretty poor considering this is the only connection I have to POC members.  To tell you the truth I don?t generally read the Bulletin most months.   I guess for me the 14  people who commented here are the only 14 people in this club.   I have noticed some POC interest in acquiring new members but for what purpose should we solicited new members if we stay disconnected.   I am very confused about the purpose of this organization.  Is it just for the Plymouth Bulletin ?

Respectfully, Chet?

[POC-Admin]

I have set up a new board for possible paid membership.  I just did it to test if it could be done.  It can and it would not cost us anything extra.  I have five people who can access it at present - this is only a test remember.  Jim and I plus three veteran members who have been active in this discussion.

I cannot make rules for what it would cost (it could be a small source of income for the club) It could also host the bulletins in PDF form for those people who do not want to get them in paper and we could remove them from the free area they are in now.  I would leave a few for good advertising.  If enough people decided they did not need the paper copy, maybe some day we could publish only the on-line version.  I get many work related magazines electronically and I subscribe to Hemmings Motor News and Road and Track electronic versions.  It is cheaper and faster and more "Green."

Like I said in another post, going all paperless is not an option if you want to keep printing a quality publication for the club if less than 95% want the paperless version.  Otherwise it would be just an enhancement to the paper one.

Discussing club activities and feedback might be one good thing for a paid region on-line - but we could make that without charging extra for members only if we wanted to.  The only reason I would see charging extra for something would be keeping the link between the paid users and free users clear and up to date.  That would mean more work for Jim and me which I do not have a problem with now but if 2500 of the membership decided to pay the extra $5 or whatever and we had to keep track of which side (Paid or free) they belonged to, it could become a problem.

Everything on this board is open and free for anyone to read.  A private area might be good (free to POC members) for keeping things about member concerns, meet details whatever we don't want the public to see away from Google and other search engines.  I don't know if that is needed.

The point of this thread seems to be do we need a region that is defined by owning a computer and using the Web?  I really don't know and we don't seem to have a lot of outside or board input here - maybe we need that.

Mark

[chetbrz]

I still stand on my earlier statement.... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"....Bill    
 

Bill,

With all do respect why are you so opposed to getting dues paying members together to share opinions.  Based on what Todd has presented I would think that the majority of inactive dues paying members are basically disconnected from the mainstream POC.  Wouldn?t it be great if 300 members showed up at a local regional event rather then 50 or 60.  What is so wrong with getting people together who share the same hobby, pastime and, passion?  

Maybe no one is interested in this type of involvement but I think as a club we should solicit this engagement and involvement from our club members.  The good that may come from the involvement of the many, may be our finest achievement.  As Mark has stated we seem to be broken into a fractional organization.  Maybe I am being idealistic but I think we can do better.  I think that status quo is not good enough.  I believe that moving forward is the main ingredient to a healthy and thriving organization.  Let?s move forward, let?s make a difference, let?s influence the younger generation, let?s make the Plymouth Owners Club an organization involved, connected, and engaged.  Sorry I am off my soap box.

Respectfully, Chet?

Mark,

If you are going to create a group category.  May Just ?POC Member? would be good enough.  Just a suggestion.

[Wm Steed]

On the whole idea of internet "Region" - it is already here.  That is what this discussion board is without a name "Region". If you belong to this board, you are in the Internet Region of the Plymouth Owner's Club.  As someone mentioned, most regions are about drives, meals, shared photos etc.  WE DO THAT HERE!  Sorry about shouting but that is what we already do.

For the life of me I can't see what the purpose of an internet "Region" would be.... as Mark has stated in his 11/18/10 posting to this topic "it is already here".. I also don't see the need for an Off Topic classification.... I know that several other forums have such a topic, however, I can't figure out the purpose...
As I have proven so many times from my posting to this forum, I might start off answering a tech question and drift off into a side story about how I gained the knowledge to answer the question... Does this mean I should break off my response moving to the OT section... I don't think so.

I also do not think it would be a good idea to break up the Plym Bul into different sub sections, 1.e. 4 cyln- 6 clyn- 8 clyn, That would just fracture things more and create a "me and them" group..... Lets face it, the 4clyn group only covers five years of vehicles, whereas the 6 clyn's cover 29 years and the 8 clyn's about 16 + years. The majority of the "Baby Bloomers" can not relate to anything that is not a go fast rocket ship.

To a great extent, I just may be a typical "Old Car Nut", I enjoy any vehicle. car or truck, that is pre smog/computer, I have several Chryco's, (I use the term Chyco because most of my cars are pre Mopar) several Fords, and a few GM's. I go to certain car shows that are not brand specific and I don't like putting along in the slow lane. Trophy's mean little to me, that is in spite of the fact that my 39 Plym has won four first place trophy's at car shows around the Western U.S.

I enjoy the internet car forums greatly.... they have opened a whole new world to all of us. Some of us have become great friends via the internet. I am currently communicating with people on four continents about car and part issues... And yes I even sell parts to people beyond our shores.

I still stand on my earlier statement.... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"....Bill   
 

[TodFitch]

...snip...
I would be interested to know how many members of the POC are not members of a POC region or what percentage are not regional members.  Is it possible to provide this information?  This might be a big help in analyzing the potential need for an internet type region which might allow these dues paying members the ability to communicate.

Respectfully, Chet?

I don't know what the situation is overall, but the national roster list 240 members in California but the Golden State Region consists of only 66 members. Rounding to even numbers, about 3/4 of the members in California are not members of the region. I suppose some could be members of regions elsewhere, but is seems unlikely.

[chetbrz]

Okay,

On the whole idea of internet "Region" - it is already here.  

I could make that board totally private where even to look at the posts, you would need a certain level of permission from me or Jim.  That would probably be paid membership in the POC and an extra $5 or so for the "Region" membership.

Think about it.

Mark
   

Mark,

I disagree with your statement { ?On the whole idea of internet "Region" - it is already here?}  Yes we have POC members and non-members participating in the discussions on this board but because of the mix of non members I believe that these discussions bear little weight with the National Leadership.  Members who are not regionally organized have little voice in POC issues, events, or concerns, other then the yearly vote.

As far as creating a members only board as a place to deal with serious club issues by serious members would in my opinion, be a big help in eliminating the fractured atmosphere that you described in your post.   The thought of paying an additional $5.00 for an accommodation which would not increase the Web cost to the POC is objectionable.  

I would be interested to know how many members of the POC are not members of a POC region or what percentage are not regional members.  Is it possible to provide this information?  This might be a big help in analyzing the potential need for an internet type region which might allow these dues paying members the ability to communicate.

Respectfully, Chet?

[bigaadams]

I would venture to guess that the majority of views were not bonifide members of the POC..I am not..I did not vote...I am an online forum POC member only...I am not in any manner close enough to any region to fully support the POC in the manner members should...location is oft times a very restricting factor..and I do not read any magazines or ohter paper form publications other than a Tech Order of manual..so the monthly is of no use to me either, I would just set it aside for collecting dust and moths..

[TodFitch]

...snip... If you belong to this board, you are in the Internet Region of the Plymouth Owner's Club.  ...snip...

So you have to be a member of the POC to be a member of this board?

[POC-Admin]

Okay,

It has been a while since I have looked at this thread. I would like to add my comments.

The suggestion to break the board up into 4 cyl, 6 cyl and post V8 era might just fracture our group even more than it already is.  I see that the POC in general is fractured to a great extent.  It appears to me that because the 4 cyl guys have their own meets, seem to congregate already, it would just make that separation worse by breaking this board up.

I can make new groupings under the technical section of the board if that is your wish, I can see how that would make finding articles easier.

On the whole idea of internet "Region" - it is already here.  That is what this discussion board is without a name "Region". If you belong to this board, you are in the Internet Region of the Plymouth Owner's Club.  As someone mentioned, most regions are about drives, meals, shared photos etc.  WE DO THAT HERE!  Sorry about shouting but that is what we already do.

Do you want a totally "Off Topic" area?  I can arrange that because that is what you are talking about - most boards have an area that you can talk about anything you care to as long as it is not immoral, illegal or obscene. We did not set one of those areas up because we wanted to keep this board more technical in nature - not social.  I spend a lot more time on other boards because of the social aspect of them.  I do get to know those guys like I would in a Region group.  We talk about politics, life and family a lot.  The guys and gals are all ages and because places like this require careful thought before you hit the "POST" button, most of the time the discussion go for days about subjects like Religion without anyone attacking an individual.  It is very eye-opening sometimes.

Is that what you want, I can make a separate sub-board just for things like that - share recipes, share photos of the grand-kids, talk about politics etc. but remember those kind of boards open a lot of wounds and can cause much in the way of hot feelings.  I could make that board totally private where even to look at the posts, you would need a certain level of permission from me or Jim.  That would probably be paid membership in the POC and an extra $5 or so for the "Region" membership.

Think about it.

Mark
   

[Cliff54]

I would have been a supporter of an internet regioon about a year ago then Van here in Texas got a bunch of us together and we formed the Texas Region..... I would however join an internet region if it is formed! I like this site and you guys have helped me tons!



Regards

Cliff(one yes vote)54

[Wm Steed]

I wonder... just who would an internet based regional group represent?
It is very true that many of the members of the POC and the majority of the contributors to the forum live in areas where there is not another POC member within several miles, and/or 100's of miles of them.
I know that in my case, I do not know one member of the POC or Golden Coast Region that is within 100 miles of me... I wonder why? From time to time I see older Plymouth's either cruising around or parked. I have approached several people through out the years, giving them a GCR/POC card and or one of mine, yet to my knowledge not one of these people have joined the POC.
I could probably babble on with a lot of useless non-sense, instead I will cut this short by saying...... If it ain't broke, don't fix it....Bill

[bigaadams]

Just for clarification,

The original intent of this proposal was to connect disconnected existing members.  Of course if this concept in any way stimulated new membership I do not believe anyone would consider this to be a problem.

Tks,  Chet?

I apologize for my statements on the other forum...as it pertains only toconnect existing members I was out of order..

[chetbrz]

Just for clarification,

The original intent of this proposal was to connect disconnected existing members.  Of course if this concept in any way stimulated new membership I do not believe anyone would consider this to be a problem.

Tks,  Chet?

[RobertKB]

I was a POC member for a year but didn't continue for many of the reasons listed below. I would rejoin the POC if there was an internet region as I do appreciate the club's philosophy. I also think it would increase the traffic on this forum or whatever forum was set up for the new region. This forum is like molasses in January. Very slow. Time for new ideas if the POC is to move forward and be valid in the 21st Century.

[Captain Neon]

New blood?  Why would a POC region want that?  Some body may actually want to do some thing car related like actually drive them some where!  Regional gatherings are supposed to be a bout eating lousy food and talking a bout the grand children, not cars.  250 miles to visit a car-related site is too far and a waste of time, but it is an annual event to drive 350 miles to eat some one else's lousy food and brag a bout your grand children to them.  "I'm not even sure where the keys are to my old Plymouth or even where I have it stored any more."

[CHS]

I think this is a great idea. I live on the Treasure Coast of Florida. I do not know of any other Plymouth Owner Ckub Members in my area. I know there are old Plymouths in the area. Maybe we could get together and participate in car shows.

[chetbrz]

John,

You bring up some excellent points.  Yes an internet region would be much different then a traditional POC region in that the participants are geographically separated.   So yes activities would be almost impossible other then some alignment of members at a national event or an occasional meeting of small groups.  But the goal of the Internet Region is to bring dues paying members together who today only have the Bulletin and possibly this forum for contact with the club that they support.  

As a POC forum my expectations are that this place should be the premier authoritative place on the web for information concerning Plymouth.  Why else would someone seek out this place but to receive help with their hobby and their car?  Talk about club values maybe the club should strive to provide the most traditional value of all.., and that is help to a fellow Plymouth owner modified or not.   Would you not help a starving man just because his beliefs were different?   Maybe some might consider this blasphemes but I don?t believe that they are a majority.

I think it is an embarrassment to this club and its members that Plymouth owners go to other web forums because they can not find the help they need here.  

What I would do if I were King.  

I would change this forum into a place that Plymouth owners would migrate to for technical help.  The way I would do this is by breaking up the forum into three boards.  4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, and Post war 60 & 70.

Discussions about originality & judging would be forbidden unless the question was asked for validation rather then argument.  Good will goes a lot further to influence people then beating them with a hammer.

I would make it a requirement that those who were elected technical advisers check this board at minimum once per week.  If they are not internet savvy then someone must be positioned to take their place.  

My other suggestions were in a previous post.

So again if the forum can?t provide the connection to the club then maybe a region of disconnect people who are interested might.

The way I look at it is if you don?t try then you can not fail.., but you also can not succeed.  

Respectfully, Chet

[POC-Admin]

You should not be able to vote twice.  The option to vote goes away for your user profile once you vote.  The board tries to keep it honest.  I would guess most people don't understand the "Pole" idea and just skip it and read the messages.

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

Yes, it could be multiple visits by the same person ... I've been "back" several times to check on views and I don't always wait for a notice of a new posting either.   Habit I guess.   

One counter-point thought.   Any time you create a new "group" you create new opportunity for devisiveness simply due to the fact that you have now painted a new target on yourself (the new group) AND you have made statements of mission or purpose that will certainly differ from the other group or groups whom you have "separated" from.    I have seen this to be true in any number of personal situations over my career.       

I think another point that always jumps into the world of reality is that anything that costs ... and I include in my consideration of costs anything beyond what is perceived as free be it time or $$$ .... creates a barrier and helps paint that target that I describe briefly above.   As soon as such a group starts charging dues and have those who pay and those who chose not to pay the group would find itself being challenged with some of the same issues that prompts this discussion in the first place.  At least I postulate that as a likely outcome that would need to be considered if such a region were to be given further serious consideration.   

Now, in this case I personally believe that the goal of such a distributed, internet based, region would be something akin to this:  to provide opportunity for Plymouth owners and friends to participate in a POC group that they otherwise may not have the ability to participate in due to geographical location, time availability or other social or physical constraints.   However, I do not believe that such a group would preclude having real "drive-to" meetings periodically.  Nor would it preclude judging competitions or any of the other traditional activities of a geographically based group.   Regional reports could include gatherings of small subsets of the membership OR larger more location based gatherings similar to those already being done within the rest of the POC structure ... I'm thinking regional meetings.   In fact, I suspect that it might actually encourage such a situation and one in which new friendships might evolve between the current geographic based regions and at least some of the members of such a distributed region.   

Anyway ... some thoughts for this mornings consideration.

John

[RC Drown]

Lets hope so, better to think the glass if half full instead of half empty :)

[chetbrz]

out of 48 views, only eight votes

Bob,  It could be 8 voters viewing the post 5 times ?

[RC Drown]

out of 48 views, only eight votes

[chetbrz]

Chet ... I like the idea.   I assume it would also be ok for a person to participate in multiple "regions" if they so chose?  

I wouldn?t think there would be any objection for a member to belong to two regions.   Of course under the present structure I don?t believe this question has ever come up.   The real question is why anyone wants to connect to a region.   After all in most cases there is an additional regional membership fee.   So what does the region bring to the table?  I believe the Pros & Cons below sum this up.

Regional Pros.

1.)  Connectivity to other members. (camaraderie)
2.)  Organized local events.
3.)  A voice into the national club leadership.

Regional Cons.

1.)  Meeting Schedules
2.)  Organized events require that members donate time.
3.)  Only available to members who are close enough to an organized region so that they can participate.

Why an Internet Region?

In my opinion the place where potential new members and disconnected geographical members should be congregating is the POC forum.   I believe this place should be the gateway to connectivity within the POC organization, unfortunately on the board today there is a basic lack of leadership presence both technical and administrative.   So if enough people feel the same way then maybe the need for an Internet Region might be an answer to fill this need.  

Suggestions that could help change the board and eliminate the need for the above suggestion.

A user group setup as ?POC Member? ? this would identify a POC member vs. a non member.  Helps eliminate the anonymity of the user.  

A user group setup as ?POC Officer? ? this would identify any of the regional or national elected officers.

A user group setup as ?Tech Advisor? ? this would help a user value the resulting advice posted on the board.

Also a ?Members Only Board? where only POC members can access.  In this area discussions could be had that span many of the issues the club is faced with today without heckling from non-members.

And Please an online method for paying dues.  These days the only reason I have stamps at home is so I can mail my POC dues.    PS Jim,   The check is in the mail.

Just some ideas.

[49plymouthclubcoupe]

Chet ... I like the idea.   I assume it would also be ok for a person to participate in multiple "regions" if they so chose?   

[chetbrz]

I have toyed with this idea for a number of years.  I would like to create a POC region of disconnected POC members who for geographical reasons are unable to participate in POC structured meetings.  Basically what I believe to be the silent majority.  This region would serve those POC members who have yet to establish a voice within the formal mainstream of this long standing and respected organization.   Within the chaos of the internet this forum and others have brought together many POC members who do not have the luxury of having an organized group within our hometowns.    I think it is time to unleash this voice and move from the back burner to a place that is recognized and respected by the POC leadership.  We are Plymouth owners and if any club is going to carry the monogram of representing Plymouth owners then our voice must be heard?, must be offered?, and must be reckoned with.    Please don?t get me wrong I believe in the basic principles of the POC but I also believe in Plymouth owners.  Those of us who keep these old cars on the road and enjoy the camaraderie of others who may modify there vehicles but this doesn?t make them any less then Plymouth owners.   If you are a POC member and have any interest in this crazy endeavor please vote yes to this poll.  I have been told by the membership that you need three members to create a region.  I believe there are enough members out there to create a difference.

Thanks & best regards,  Chet?