40 Ply Brake Job

[Don St Peter]

Well things are looking up. I decided a new day, a fresh look. Since I was using a 2X4 under the brake pedal and getting no where for 2 days. I decided to pump the brake "vigorously" without the 2X4 and BAM my wheel cylinders started filling and bleeding worked. I now have a partial pedal without final minor adjustments. Maybe it was M/C "relief port" related, coincidental, or God judging I had suffered enough!! The slight change in procedure will certainly be noted for the future.
Thanks for all the input
Don

[plym_46]

Take a look at the Graham Paige club site.  On their tech tips page is a pictorial of a home made brake gage.

Their brake system was simialr to the MOPAR system (they were relatives) and the gauge mimics some of the basic measurments afforded by the AAMCO and other type brake gages.  You can get you major and minor set statically then do a rebleed.  Remember to start at the right rear and then work closer to the MC order till finishing with the drivers front.

There is a good run down on adjusting the brake system on the p15 D 24 site on the main page.

http://www40.addr.com/~merc583/mopar/framesets/wipbrakeframeset.html

http://members.shaw.ca/rjsill/tech.htm

[36 Ply]

Don-

I don't know if this will help, but...

I replaced the master cylinder some years ago on my '36 touring sedan, which I no longer own, with a rebuilt unit. After bleeding the brakes to my satisfaction, I had hardly any pedal. After some experimenting, I discovered that the adjustment on the threaded pushrod was critical. There was only about a 1/8 turn on the rod with an open end wrench between a decent pedal and hardly any pedal.

Regards,
Pat O'Connor

[Don St Peter]

Well, I had all brake cylinders and master cyl. sleaved. New kits, brake shoes, brake lines etc. Cleaned, bleed M/C before reinstallation and confirmed all ports clear etc, etc..., no leaks, bleed brake lines of air using the old fashioned pump and bleed method. Am unable to get any pedal at all. There is absolutely no brake pedal resistence at all. I confirmed all parts are installed properly and that the M/C is putting  fluid out OK. I used the "feel" method to adjust the brakes as best I could.
Since I am at wit's end, I am now wondering if pure major and/or minor brake shoe misadjustment could cause such a problem? I have also noted in the past posts that some people have made and used a pressure bleeder for effective bleeding of completely new brake jobs. In my past years of bleeding attempts ( ones where there was no disassembly, just purging of air) the pump and bleed method worked OK for me.  I would like some sound advice on this matter, before I start taking things apart.
Any other thoughts and guidance would be appreciated!
Thanks in Advance
Don

[plym_46]

Heresy to follow!!!! I did read, I do understand, but here goes any way.?

If you are going to put all the money necessary to redo the complete brake system, you really should consider upgrading to disc brakes in the front.? The history of these systems is replete with many stories of new parts properly installed, developing leaks in much to short a time ofter installation, and then there is the proper adjusting conundrum.? For the same money or less you get a modern system which is safer, easier and less expensive to care for, with the added bonus of having parts available anwhere ithe country.

check out the adapter kit at

http://www.rustyhope.com

Then log onto the p14 d24 forum and ask for comments from those who have made the change.

There are several other options, but Charlie Ackers aka Old Daddy produces these and stands behind (or more appropriatly infront of his kits)? Simple, effective, safe and economical.

Likewise DOT has stories of dissatisfaction if not installed and bleed properly.  For the trouble I stick with DOT 3.

[Wm Steed]

I won't go into the discussion regarding the pro's/cons of DOT 3 vs DOT 5 because it is as arbitratable as Ford vs Chevy.
A rebuild of the brake system is another matter. The proper rebuilding of a brake systems requires new and/or rebuilt master and wheel cylinders. All new springs,? keepers
and rubber hoses should be used. On older cars, ie; vehicles in excess of twenty five years it is a good idea to replace all of the steel lines, especially if the vehicles is located in the rust belt part of the country.

My '39 Plym will stop on a dime and give you a nickle change.... But then everything under the car is new and I have power assisted disk brakes on the front.

I still hear my Auto Shop teacher preaching to us... " A repair is only as good as it's weakest part, if you don't have time to fix it right, when are you going to have time to redo it"....Bill

[Go Fleiter]

Don, our german Oldtimer Praxis magazine 1-2009 covered DOT 5 vs. DOT3 prblems.
They state, that Glycolic Fluid with the time could penerate rubber gaskets and cups and lead to unexpected reactions with later siliconic contact
They don?t mention the other situation, silicone first.
Dot 3 takes water thus needing change every couple of Years. Dot 5 does not, but if water condensates in it, it will not dissolve and form water bubbles with risc of punctual rust and steam building up when getting hot. I too find braking aktion a bit spongy with silicone DOT5 . Oltimer Prxis even suggegsts to substitute brake hoses with steelflex hoses brcaus of the different pressure point of Dot 5. Problems too with pwer brakes or ABS- brakes, which we don?t have in our pre 60 Plys. Less greasing characteristics of silicone with pairs of iron metals too are prooven. Main advantages: no need to ever care of it, very high and low temperature tolerance. Thats why coast guard and Armys prefer it.
Greetings! Go

[Don St Peter]

Since I have experienced brake cyl. leaks in the past year (since a complete brake job), I am having Cylinders sleaved and installing new wheel cyl. kits and going back to DOT 3 because of excessive "spongy" brakes in my 40 Ply, which, I'm told is typical and should be expected using DOT 5 instead of DOT 3 especially in a larger volume system then later year plymouths, and the tendency for DOT 5 to trap more air within the fluid itself. I have blown the lines out and removed all the DOT 5 from the master cyl. I have also been told that this should be sufficient since a small amount of DOT 5 mixed with a large amount of DOT 3 is OK ( as opposed to the other way around). Since I do not want to mess with the master cylinder installation and I want to avoid the discussion about which is better, DOT 5 or DOT 3, my questions are.... (1) is it true about DOT 5 into DOT 3; and (2) is it a mistake to NOT change the rubber out on the master cyl?
Thanks in Advance
Don