How many are still out there ? .....

Wm Steed · December 05, 2007, 01:02:34 PM

I think I would have to go with Jim's theory that the cowl on the Ute pictured would have to be unique to a roadster/touring.
Reviewing the picture will reveal that there is a considerable amount of flat space on the cowl between the hood lip and the windshield irons, enough so that mirrors could be mounted on the cowl. The cowls of open cars are similar to closed cars, in that the 'roll up' for the A pillar/windshield base starts within less than one inch of the hood lip. In reality.... the only semi flat part of the cowl is where the cowl vent is located.

As I noted in my earlier posting.... the door hinges on the Ute are completely different. The top hinge on an open or closed '39 is located right above the belt line, where-as the upper hinge on the Ute is a couple of inches below the belt line. We all know that labor was quite cheap in 1939, however, I don't think a total remake of the cowl involving the fabrication and installation of new door jambs and the upper cowl portion could have been justified to save a little money on taxes....

Since we are dealing mostly with theory..... I would propose that in all likely hood the body builder (s) in Australia that built the Ute's, for some reason or another created/offered open cab versions based on a roadster/touring cowl that they already had the jigs for. It is possible that the open bodies were originally intended for military use as a mount for a 'gun car'..... an Australian version of the 'Jeep' ???....Bill

Jim Benjaminson · December 04, 2007, 12:54:51 AM

Hi Andy - wasn't paying any attention to who posted the '39 roadster ute photo. Good to hear from you again! RE: The roadster cowl on this vehicle. I'd say it was Australian all the way. I don't know how long Australia continued to build roadsters or touring cars....I have seen photos of a 1936 Plymouth tourings (in fact, have seen one real - here in the U.S. converted to LHD). Don't know if they made any '37-38-39 or 40 roadsters or tourings. If they did, sure would love to see some photos. I do have photos of a '40 coupe with a rumble seat and a golf bag door on the side....for those that don't know, the last U.S. built roadsters and touring cars were done in 1932. JB

Andy Wylie · December 04, 2007, 12:21:46 AM

Bill I've seen a picture of the remains I mentioned and the stump of on A pillar was visible behind the roadster screen suggesting the cowl was intended for another body style, the stumps may be obscured in this pic. The hinges and their placement appear unique.
Technically it's a pickup and the tray is quite high with enough room for a spare at the rear, the tub looks too short to accommodate it behind the seat like utes and coupes.
Jim traced a number on mine to Lynch Rd Detroit, I believe it was shipped through Canada to Australia by the Canada Cycle Trading Co as a chassis and floorpan, cowl and front clip and this one may well have too.
I read something about Australian roadster utes coming about to take advantage of a tax break for open commercials or farm vehicles.

Wm Steed · December 03, 2007, 11:46:20 AM

While reviewing the picture of the '39 'Ute', I noted that the doors have only two hinges. The convertibles all have three hinges... It would appear that since the cowl on the Ute has a roadster type windshield and two hinges, the cowl was not derived from a convertible, it was a unit that must have been made especially for the 'Ute's'.
I wonder where the spare tire was carried? Since the Australian cars are right had drive, if the car had a fender mount spare it would have normally been on the side away from the driver ??? .....Bill

POC-Admin · December 03, 2007, 10:22:48 AM

Those lucky guys 'down under' get all the really cool UTE's - I want one! The only time Dodge sold a Dakota ragtop pickup, they did not sell very good and only lasted two or three years. I guess our pickup buyers here in the "States" want Big and "Tough" not cool!!!

Jim Benjaminson · December 03, 2007, 12:04:11 AM

Wow! A '39 roadster pickup. That would be a kick to own! Thanks for posting the photo. I see the '39 7-passenger on eBay sold for $660.

Andy Wylie · December 01, 2007, 07:18:45 PM

Jim I never saw it but recall a Chrysler restorers Club member in Sydney owning a 39.
I think it was the same member who had the remains of one these...

this is from Restored Cars Australia's readers cars section Jan-Feb 97, it was in daily use in Brisbane at the time.

Jim Benjaminson · December 01, 2007, 12:58:09 PM

Yes, mine is a 1940. Its the only one registered in the club and its one of 3 that I know of. One is in South America in rough shape and the other car was in Texas. It was stolen a while back and has not been located...I have the serial numbers off that car so if anyone knows of a 40 7-passenger let me know. It could turn out to be the stolen car....

As for 39 7-passengers. i know of two in Norway - both in horrible shape and a very nice dual siemounted 7-passenger in South america. Watch for a feature on it in the Bulletin in the near future. It has blanked out rear quarter windows, dual sidemounts, etc. i have copies of the oirignal paperwork from where it was sold in Buenoe Aires.

7-passenger Plymouth's are few and far between, so if any of you know of any - regardless of year - let me know. They built them in 1932, 1933 thru 1941.

Bob · November 28, 2007, 02:36:00 PM

Jim's is a 1940

Wm Steed · November 28, 2007, 12:08:59 PM

A 1939 Plymouth 7 passenger limo popped up on ebay this morning... Item #170173972295 ... the car is located in Lebanon, CT.
By the looks of the pictures, the car is fairly complete with the jump seats still in the car... There is a lot of rust out in the bottom of the doors and trunk area and some other other issues, however, nothing that could not be fixed.

Since Jim B. reputedly has the only one known to exist, that is as far as the POC is concerned, maybe someone in the eastern U.S. should jump all over this car....Bill

Jim Benjaminson · November 26, 2007, 10:28:27 PM

Tod - not sure why your electronic copy of the roster would have showed just one 40 P10 4 door sedan. There are currently 21 of them on the register of current members. And a lot more in the
over all registry of known cars. (its not in an electronic data base - so it will take me some time to count through the record to tell you how many have been registered over the years....the roster did show just one 7-passenger, which happens to belong to me...JB

Bob · November 26, 2007, 07:43:09 PM

According to the "Standard Catalog of Chrysler 1924-1990" there were 173,351 P-10 Plymouth 4dr sedans were produced.

In the area that I live, the western Catskills of New York, other than my P10 Bus coupe, I don't know of another car like mine, when it comes to the 4dr sedans there aren't any that I can think of, but I have seen a 1940 Plymouth 2dr sedan at the Rhinebeck Car Show.

Hope this is of some help,
Bob

TodFitch · November 26, 2007, 04:10:01 PM

Surprising to me, the electronic copy of the POC roster I got last spring only lists one P-10 four door sedan which happens to be in the San Francisco Bay Area. I would have expected more. There were over 300,000 P-10s built between all the different plants and in most years the four door sedans were the top sellers (I don't have body style break downs for 1940 available at the moment) so I would have expected a lot more P-10 four door sedans to be in the club roster.

darren · November 26, 2007, 02:42:36 PM

:) I live in Pa, I tried to find out my cars history (owners etc. ) the DOT of Pa does not have such information .... Do you know of a way to find out ?... I would also like to really know how many cars like mine are still out there ..... 1940 Plymouth 4 door sedan P10...... Thanks for letting me know , Happy PLY-mouthing DANiel