Author Topic: '28 Model Q Roadster  (Read 417 times)

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Betty Boop

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2019, 12:50:07 PM »
Ah. Thanks Tod. Got it now. Didn't add the 1 in front of 5828. Makes sense now. Cheers.

TodFitch

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2019, 01:26:38 PM »
The FedCo system used by Chrysler is documented in a number of places. My explanation of it can be found at https://www.ply33.com/Misc/vin#intro

Basically they used mapped some digits into letters using the following mapping:

W -> 0
P -> 1
C -> 2
H -> 3
R -> 4
Y -> 5
S -> 6
L -> 7
E -> 8
D -> 9

They used some other letters not in the mapping. For example, it seems "G" was a prefix for Canadian built cars.

And it seems they used overlapping sequence numbers which I've only been able to resolve by considering the location of the mapped letters vs straight digits as significant.

So for your GP-359-W, drop the "G", convert the "P" to 1 and the "W" to 0 and your serial number becomes 13590. The sequence number your FedCo ID can be found in started at GP-000-P (1-000-1 or 10001) and ended with GP-582-E (1-582-8 or 15828).

So there were 15828 - 10001 (+1) = 5828 vehicles built in that series of FedCo numbers and your car was the 3590th of those built.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 01:30:43 PM by TodFitch »

Betty Boop

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2019, 11:18:48 AM »
Thank you Tod. It seems I may be a little confused.

An article on the Fedco system by Jim Benjaminson quoted the following example: PC-345-S would equate to a numerical serial number of 123456. Hence, from Bill's methodology for GP-359-W (ignoring the G as he advised) I got 13590 as the serial number and divided this by 729. That how I got 18.64. Bill also said that the figure 1 means it's a July car so I took that as verification.

I can see the logic of your method but by only using a four digit serial number they don't seem to have been giving themselves much headroom as far as the Windsor production run of the Model Q was concerned. As I say, I'm confused and any further clarification would be helpful.

Thanks again.

TodFitch

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2019, 05:51:27 PM »
. . .There's no Fedco plate anywhere on the car, never has been as far as I can tell. From other docs I have chassis no. GP359W and engine no. Q200776. . .

My serial number/VIN decoder at https://www.ply33.com/Misc/vin shows the following for that FedCo number:

Serial Number: GP-359-W
Found in range: GP-000-P to GP-582-E
Serial: 3590 of 5828
Year: 1928
Make: Plymouth
Model Code: Q
Plant: Windsor
FedCo Number: GP-359-W

It also shows for the engine number:
Engine Number: Q-200776
Found in range: 175000 to 242482
Serial: 25777 of 67483
Year: 1928-29
Make: Plymouth
Engineering Code: Q
Type: Inline, L-Head
Cylinders:
Bore and Stroke: 3-5/8x4-1/8
Cu.In.: 170.3
Compression: 4.6:1
BHP: 45@2800

Your serial number is 3590 of 5828 built. Using Bill's 729/mo number, that would put you 4.9 months into the production run, so probably some time in November or December.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 05:54:36 PM by TodFitch »

Betty Boop

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2019, 01:41:27 PM »
Many thanks Bill. Sorry for late reply, I've been away.

There's no Fedco plate anywhere on the car, never has been as far as I can tell. From other docs I have chassis no. GP359W and engine no. Q200776. Using your dating info re Canada (13590) and dividing by 729 makes it number 18.64 off the production line (Lol) so it's definitely a July '28 car.

Being realistic, I doubt Windsor would have hit 729 cars in the first month of production but even if they only hit 200 cars in July '28 it still looks like what we have here is a car from the first week of production and possibly even the first day. Does that make sense?

Chrycoman

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2019, 02:58:32 AM »
Thanks, Go Fleiter.

I've tried those and also MOPAR but everything seems to be against me. Archive material for Windsor built cars is pretty well non-existent to the extent that even with its original serial and engine numbers I'm unable to confirm the actual build date. The nearest I can deduce is July 1928. I know it pre-dates some in museums and is possibly the oldest original car still in regular use (fine weather only!). Anyone else out there with similar problems and / or answers?


All other suggestions would be welcome. Thanks again.
   

One thing to remember is that Canadian production was about 10% of American.  And even less in the depression.   Thus US car number 101 would have been built long before CDN 101. 

Model Q, which was in production from July 1928 to February 1929, or 8 months, Canadian production would have been less per month than in the US.

Canadian serial numbers for the Q ran from GP-000-P to GP-582-E - total 5,828.  Monthly average - 729. (The model I ran from GW-000-P to GW-795-P)

American serial numbers for the Q ran from HL-950-P to HD-999-D (20,499) and RW-000-P to RH-977-H (39,773) - total 60,272.   Monthly Average - 7,534.

So if want to know approximately when it was built, decode your serial number to numbers (there is no number associated to the first letter, G) then divide that number by 729.   That would give you the month it was built, remembering July was number 1.   

Just to give an example, the last Canadian Q, #5,828, was built in February, 1929.   But you if use #5,828 with the American production, it comes out as being built in July, 1928, the first month of production.

Bill
Vancouver, BC
Bill
Toronto, ON

28 Ply.cpe

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 10:20:12 AM »
The shafts should be fine.  It just depends how the car was driven in its previous ownership. The transmission does not have syncronizers and you can not downshift between gears unless you are rolling with clutch in and are slowing untill gears mesh just perfect. Then apply the gas. You will almost have to stop to get back into 1st gear.  My Plymouth in the early 60's was hot rodded by my brother and he split the transmission case from the front shaft to the rear shaft wide open. Then the long hunt was on for another transmission.  Now I barely drive the car but keep extra parts for the future of the car.  Check the teeth on your gears to make sure they are not chipped or missing teeth just in case someone did hot rod your car. Not likely. You should be good with just new seals and new oil. The oil you see coming from the bell housing is probably the back rope seal at the crankshaft. You will be pulling the transmission to check it, now look at the back of the engine and see if the seal is leaking.

Betty Boop

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2018, 07:35:50 AM »
Many thanks for your helpful suggestions. A good clean out and seals may well be the way to go as it will never be like new again. Are the input / output shafts likely to be badly grooved? Same question for the crank rear oil seal. A fair amount of oil loss from the bottom of the bell housing but no clutch slip. Thanks.

28 Ply.cpe

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2018, 06:07:51 AM »
Thanks for coming to the Plymouth Owners Club site. It took me a long time to find a spare trans for my 28 coupe. I do have a couple people in mind with spares. Don't know if they will part with them. You could also check the Maxwell site and the Chrysler Model 65 parts on E Bay or other auction sites. They are the same transmission for that year. If yours is running fine, I would just take the time to
pull it apart and redo the seals and clean it out. It will last you the rest of the life of the car. Hope this helps.

Betty Boop

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2018, 10:01:50 AM »
Thanks, Go Fleiter.

I've tried those and also MOPAR but everything seems to be against me. Archive material for Windsor built cars is pretty well non-existent to the extent that even with its original serial and engine numbers I'm unable to confirm the actual build date. The nearest I can deduce is July 1928. I know it pre-dates some in museums and is possibly the oldest original car still in regular use (fine weather only!). Anyone else out there with similar problems and / or answers?

The gearbox is ok but after all these years could do with replacement seals. It would make sense to recondition the box at the same time but I'd prefer to source a spare one to recon rather than hit showstoppers with the original unit. I have the original owners / workshop manual and parts list but guess I'll have to keep on looking, risk it or leave it as it is.

All other suggestions would be welcome. Thanks again.
   

 

Go Fleiter

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Re: '28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 05:18:26 AM »
well,
this is the appropriate space to look for parts:
https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/index.php/board,14.0.html

Sadly, nearly all of the patronage of this once very active forum has gone lost
because of severe technical deterioration. Now, this matter solved,
they found their places and don´t come back.

Try http://p15-d24.com/forum/4-p15-d24-forum/

Beeing mainly for Sixes, maybe You get at least an Adress for 4- Bangers.
I´m not familiar with its structure, so I nearly don´t  use it.

The ex- members here went nearly all to Facebook.

Maybe You find help at Hemmings motor news, if it still provides a forum.
Good Luck!
Greetings from Düsseldorf!
Go
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 05:19:13 AM by Go Fleiter »
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Betty Boop

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'28 Model Q Roadster
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2018, 01:39:05 PM »
Hi. Just registered. Where do I start looking for a spare 3 speed trans? Thanks.