My 1929 U Restoration Thread

[Gary Vickery]

You are a craftsman!  Thanks for sharing the pics and descriptions.  Though mine is a 35, and I don't intend to restore it like this, I learn something every time you post.  Great job!

[RC Drown]

Looking Good Chet

[chetbrz]

Hi Go,

Rear Frame & Lower Window Assembly

I posted a link below to the blow by blow description.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/05142017.htm

[Go Fleiter]

I keep looking the forum every couple of weeks:
fine to see Your steady progress!
Greetins!
Go

[chetbrz]

Beautiful work!

I am really, really glad that I don't have a car with a wood framed body. But I am also fascinated by it and really enjoy your narrative and photos. Thanks!

Tod,  My stretch goal is to complete all this work by the 2018 national meet.  I doubt very much that I can realize that goal but one should always have something to strive for.  The 80 year Anniversary.  Well maybe 2019 might be more realistic for me.

Chet?

[TodFitch]

Beautiful work!

I am really, really glad that I don't have a car with a wood framed body. But I am also fascinated by it and really enjoy your narrative and photos. Thanks!

[chetbrz]

Passenger Side Hinge Pillar

With the complicated work of creating the left & right side sill plates and also the rear cross sill behind me.  I completed the construction of the passenger side hinge pillar.  Basically I reversed everything I did to the driver's side and applied it to the passenger side.



Once all the wood was positioned properly I squared off the rear body assembly.  Using dimensions I calculated and verified with actual measurements from forum member <29UJohn> who also has a 1929 Plymouth 4 door sedan.  I bolted everything down.

The strength of this rear section is now comparable to a newly constructed car.   I will move on to new work like  rebuilding the rear seat frame assembly and rear window frame which will add even more strength to the rear section of my old car.



Cheers,  Chet...

[chetbrz]

Hi Bob, progress has slowed a bit. I am in Florida  visiting the grand kids. I hope I can finish this car for the 2018 eightieth birthday of the Plymouth brand

[RC Drown]

I am pleased that your work on the '29 is coming along , I am sure it will look just as good as  your P-15 did when you finished.  who knows, maybe you can make its maiden voyage up here to the Roscoe Diner like you did your P-15.

Speaking of the Roscoe diner, Cooper and I were there this past Sunday, I had a cup of coffee and blueberry pie and he had a good cold drink of water

[chetbrz]

LOL, yes besides rust you have to worry about termites.  ???

[TodFitch]

Thank you. I enjoy reading and seeing your progress. It also reminds me that I never want to have a car with a wood framed body. :)

[chetbrz]

Since the board has been so quite I will post another update.  The cold weather that has rolled into the neighborhood has put the brakes on my wood working project.  See the link below for my progress to date.

Passenger Sill and Rear Cross Sill 

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/03152017.htm



Chet...

[Go Fleiter]

I love to see Your posts!
I?m impressed You try both steel and wood work at equally high level!!
Greetings from D?sseldorf!
Go

[chetbrz]

New Hinge Pillar Installation

This will be my last update for a while.  Everything I have done to date to the driver's side of my car I will be reversing and doing to the passenger side.  Since the methods are the same I don't see any reason to post the blow by blow description.  Will start posting again once I reach a point of new work.  Please see the link below.., just to much to post in this thread.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02232017.htm



Cheers, Chet...

[chetbrz]

Thanks Bob,

UPDATE:

I am trying to stay as close as possible to the original construction of the Plymouth frame but have to work with the tools and information I have at hand.   Obviously working without formal templates, drawings, or special tools; I try to construct as close as possible to the engineering intent and not the exact construction methods used in the period the car was built.

As I peel back the onion on this car the task is as daunting as ever but we are taking it one step at a time.  Hopefully the end product will be worth it.  As I said what you can't see is just between us...

See the link below for the update just to much to post directly:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02202017.htm



Cheers Chet...

[RC Drown]

looking good Chet

[chetbrz]

This is a rather large update with many pictures.  So please click the link below for the details.

Creating the Sill Member and it's installation.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02132017.htm

[chetbrz]

The weather here in Delaware this week has granted me permission to forge ahead with my project.

I have not yet decided what type of wood or combination of wood I will use for the sill member.   I am thinking about treated deck board with a 1/4 inch of oak glued to the top surface.  Anyway the link below gives the blow by blow on my progress recreating the left Hinge Pillar Assembly.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/01282017.htm

[chetbrz]

Frame Project Update:

This update has two many pictures to add to this post so if you are interested please click on the link below to my online project diary.   ( For you younger folks a diary is the same as a blog  :) )

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/01222017.htm

[Go Fleiter]

I continue folllowing Your work with admiration!
Greetings!
Go

[chetbrz]

This is amazing. You are a true craftsman. I think it is wonderful when someone takes a piece of automotive history and brings it back to life.
Looking forward to the day I can see you drive your restoration.

Thank you,  I'm looking forward to that day also.  Hopefully sooner than later.  :)

[CHS]

This is amazing. You are a true craftsman. I think it is wonderful when someone takes a piece of automotive history and brings it back to life.
Looking forward to the day I can see you drive your restoration.

[chetbrz]

Back to the Framing Issue:

With the front suspension completed and all 4 wheels supporting the car again I continued on the framing project.  First I stripped out the old floor to get an idea of the daunting task ahead of me.  I am very disappointed by the lack of original wood.  I was hoping that something of the sill assembly was left but to my disappointment none to be found.



Using the three frame mounting points on each side of the car (6 all together) I was able to determine my understanding of what the sill plate might have looked like.  The picture below is a rough idea and the following are my determinations.  If anyone has information other then this, please let me know.

1)  Sill plate thickness 1 3/4".  Length, width, and exact shape to be determined.
2)  Sill will be a single piece structure from front to back.
3)  Rear section support brace is secured with Lap Joints and through bolted to the frame. 
4)  The rear body section sits on 4 defined frame points which will square the back section and everything from that point forward will be measured from the back section as the reference.

The Plymouth frame construction appears to be simpler in nature then the Fisher Body which relies more on mortise joints.  the Plymouth frame utilizes metal braces at high stress connection points.  Also mortis joints are used in many places.

[chetbrz]

Lots of changes between your car and mine, but on mine the little sheet metal shield is mounted on the same side as the brake shoes and it retains a piece of  felt which does the actual sealing.

Looking at the '28-33 Master Parts Book (on page 2-1, Plate 1, item 15) it shows that shield on the same side as the brake shoes and calls it a "Wheel brake support front grease shield". From the location and shape, it looks like it would keep any grease that escapes the "Front wheel hub dust washer assembly" (item 5, looks like the inner grease seal in the hub) from getting flung into the brakes.

Hi Tod,

Thanks for the response.  Its hard to see what I am talking about with the drawing on page 2-1.  If you look close and follow item 15 to the bottom.  There is a small lip that shows on the back of the support plate.  You can see in both pictures I posted previously.., the dust shield sits on the side with the brake shoes as you mentioned; but the little bottom lip (Red Arrow) fits behind the support plate.  If you don't mount it this way the excess grease would wonder down on the shoe side of the brake plate.  Take another look at the pictures I posted.  The drawing from the Plymouth instruction book and my car photo.  The area at the bottom is open.  The Ply master parts book picture confirms this, but it is very hard to see because of the King Pin Assembly.  I needed to use magnification.

I believe this positioning is correct based on the review of both pictures from the parts & instruction bucket:


Thanks,  Chet...

[TodFitch]

Lots of changes between your car and mine, but on mine the little sheet metal shield is mounted on the same side as the brake shoes and it retains a piece of  felt which does the actual sealing.

Looking at the '28-33 Master Parts Book (on page 2-1, Plate 1, item 15) it shows that shield on the same side as the brake shoes and calls it a "Wheel brake support front grease shield". From the location and shape, it looks like it would keep any grease that escapes the "Front wheel hub dust washer assembly" (item 5, looks like the inner grease seal in the hub) from getting flung into the brakes.

[chetbrz]

January 7, 2017

I  picked up my parts from the machine shop on Friday an with the aid of two electric heaters and one propane heater I was able to warm my work shed enough to paint these parts.   Allowing them to sit out in the air after cleaning would just invite rust.   As it was, I had to lightly buff them prior to painting.



As far as today goes, since this morning we are experiencing whiteout conditions and between the cold winds and snow it's not enjoyable to be working out in the garage today.  Even with the heaters running.

January 11, 2017  I installed the brake support plates, brake cylinders, and pads.  As usual everything should be straight forward but I did run across a question.  My driver's side Dust Shield (Item 10 in the drawing) was on the outside of the brake support plate and the passenger side Dust Shield was positioned on the inner side of the brake support plate.  Just so we are on the same page see the diagram below.  (Item 10)



I assume that this dust shield allows grease and grime from the rear bearing to be collected and expelled out the back of the brake support plate.  The picture from the Plymouth Instruction Booklet for 1929 shows the Dust Shield behind the Brake Support Plate.  This is the way I installed these on both wheels.   See photo below:



If I misunderstood this please let me know.

Chet...

[TodFitch]

Looking great, a nice start to the year!

[chetbrz]

Happy New Year !!!

On this rainy January 3rd. I installed the new passenger side front leaf spring and reassembled the tie rod ends and installed and aligned the front spindles as well as I could without the drums and wheels.



I also dropped off the front brake mounting plates and the gravel guards from the engine compartment.., at my local Napa machine shop to be hot tank and clean before paint and reassembly.  I have new front brake pads ready for installation.



I am almost finished with the front suspension, I guess I will turn my attention to the rear axle once I am totally finished with the front. 
PS... this is coming out better than I expected.  I think the word is awesome.  :)

Chet...

[chetbrz]

Seasons Greetings and back to work.

I cleaned up the Shackle which was on the front passenger side spring.  This shackle is very different to the Tryon Shackle which I am told was used on this car.  I have attached a picture below in the hopes that someone might recognize this shackle.  I believe my rear springs also have this type of shackle.  Of course the rear shackle is a bit larger.
See Below...



Tks, Chet...

[chetbrz]

I am wondering if there will be any issue with the nylon bushing cold flowing over time. . .

Tod I had similar concerns.  I guess time will tell.  These trailer parts are used on Boat, Car, and Camping trailers.  Actually modern cars use hard rubber bushings to support leaf springs which were another possible choice.  So it's not like these parts were designed for another purpose and retrofitted for leaf springs.  These parts are most effective for boat trailers that carry considerable weight and are submerged often in sault water.  Also very easy to replace if something better comes along or if life expectancy is short.  After all my 29 isn't driven daily at highway speeds actually doing 45mph is a land speed record event.  The car likes 35mph as a cruising speed.

Thanks for the heads-up, Chet...

[TodFitch]

I am wondering if there will be any issue with the nylon bushing cold flowing over time. . .

[chetbrz]

It is always nice to see, how beautifully You do Your things!
Greetings from D?sseldorf!
Go

Go,

I guess it comes from 20 years of working for a German Technology company. 

Chet...

[Go Fleiter]

It is always nice to see, how beautifully You do Your things!
Greetings from D?sseldorf!
Go

[chetbrz]

I started the reassembly of the front suspension.

Over the past week or so I had removed the gravel shield and steering box and have been cleaning and renewing the front assembly parts.  Both tie rod ends have been cleaned as well as the tie rod shaft.  Removing the protective coating of grime has been a difficult task.  I am saving some parts like the gravel shields for the Hot Tank at our local Napa store.  Also I cleaned as much of the wheel well as needed and painted it with flat black rust-oleum.  With this work completed I started to reassemble the driver's side suspension.

I lightly honed the frame shackle holes to clear them of any burs.  I used a large 'C' clamp to press the Teflon Bushing into place.



Below is a picture of the shackle setup without the locking nuts.  I added washers to keep the shackle ends from scraping against the spring and frame support.



I installed the Steering Box, New Leaf Spring, Bumper, reassembled the Drag Link, New Grease fittings and greased everything.  I am very happy with the end result.



I also spent some time on the passenger side spring now that the Driver's side is completed.  The passenger side was in really bad shape.  The top leaf had been broken and was welded.  I can't believe I was ridding around with this spring in this condition.



BTW, The passenger side leaf spring had a different shackle setup.  It had a metal bushing with a screw in center pivot shaft that the shackle ends connected to.  Definitely a much better shackle than the Tryon Shackle.  I believe the different shackle and welded top leaf happened quite awhile ago.  With all the grime on the leaf spring you couldn't notice that a half leaf was added to facilitate the broken front spring eyelet.   :o

Chet...

[chetbrz]

I am looking forward to following your progress.

For what it is worth, the drag link end on my '33 is very similar in construction. But one thing it has that I don't see in yours is a leather piece with a hole and slot which goes under the top sheet metal piece. I guess it is supposed to be a seal. Was there any evidence that yours had something like that at one time?

Not sure, to many decades of dried grease.


In the 28 to 33 Master parts list the following items are listed:

1  - Drag link dust cover pad
8  - Drag link dust cover spring
9  - Drag link dust cover washer
10- Drag link dust cover

I recovered items 8, & 10 

I believe item '1' was a thin pad under the dust cover washer (item 9) and used as a seal.   The Master parts list references these items.   From what I can tell the order of assembly is as follows.  Reference picture above.

Item '10' dust cover
Item  '1'  Dust cover pad
Item  '9'  Dust cover washer
Item  '8'  Spring


Good pick up Tod, I haven't decided how I am going to deal with this yet; Of course leather is a useable option and easy to fabricate.  Also could use a soft rubber washer.

Have a Great Thanksgiving !!!

[TodFitch]

I am looking forward to following your progress.

For what it is worth, the drag link end on my '33 is very similar in construction. But one thing it has that I don't see in yours is a leather piece with a hole and slot which goes under the top sheet metal piece. I guess it is supposed to be a seal. Was there any evidence that yours had something like that at one time?

[Go Fleiter]

You are a friend of big projects!
Please continue to post or link!
Greetings from D?sseldorf!
Go

[chetbrz]

Chet,
Thanks for posting your restoration work.  I look forward to more postings as you continue your progress.
I knew you owned this car but didn't know what you were going to do with respect to any renewal of it.

Hi Bill, thanks for the response.  While I am working on the car's suspension any and all suggestions on body construction would be welcomed, especially the floor.  I know the original floor was plywood as far as my car is concerned nothing on the floor is original or for that matter.., I don't think it even closely mimics the original construction.  So for now pictures of a surviving 29 Ply showing the floor board construction & placement would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,  Chet...

[Bill Davis]

Chet,
Thanks for posting your restoration work.  I look forward to more postings as you continue your progress.
I knew you owned this car but didn't know what you were going to do with respect to any renewal of it.

[chetbrz]

I have had this car since 2006 and I finally have the time to devote to getting it back to a closer rendition of an Original Manufactured Vehicle.  In an effort not to clutter this post I am supplying links to my web blog that have detail information for each project step in this on going restoration diary.  I will continue to post my progress reports if there is interest in them.

All feedback & advise are welcomed.   

  see link:  http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2016/10292016.htm

  see link:  http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2016/11112016.htm

  see link:  http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2016/11162016.htm