I happily got to drive my '50 plymouth project car around the yard after putting in the freshened gas tank. I am new to using a 3 on the tree (no overdrive) and was not able to move shift lever to the "inside" par to the H pattern for second and third gear. The lever only moves slightly with the clutch when in neutral towards me in and on inspecting under the hood I could not see how\why it seizes. I have not been able to good a real good look at those linkages from my efforts under the car yet. Why would the lever only move to one half of the H-pattern.
I only just today ordered a shop manual so I do not have that resource to consult yet.
The crossover movement in the H pattern of the P15 and the 1950 Plymouth is very minimal.? ? You might have to just clean and adjust the linkages.? A service manual is a good start.? I have a 48 Plymouth Special Deluxe besides the 29 in my profile picture.
Chet...
The link below is to my P15 site.? You might find it interesting the cars are very similar.
http://www.chetscoins.com/1948p15/
Chrysler products and some other quality makes used a "post and selector" transmission. Although you select the gears in an H pattern, the lever falls back toward the dashboard after selecting low or reverse and does not drop when you select second and high.
If you study the lever (s) at the lower end of the steering column you will discover that the movement of the lever which enters at the top of the transmission's selector cover and which is connected to the main shaft of the gear lever travels back and forth in just the same manner for either low and reverse as for second and high.
To select low or reverse, the lower transmission control must be pulled forward at the transmission by pulling back on the hand lever. It drops back after the shift is completed. ( On most 1940 models, this movement was accomplished with a cable.) Inside the transmission, a "finger" simply lifts the selector into the correct slot when the driver pulls back on the lever. It is virtually impossible to jam these transmissions in two gears at once as often happened with other designs.
The most critical adjustment on this setup is the one which pulls the lower lever forward. At the lower end of the steering column, and below it if viewed from above, there are two 7/16 nuts at the forward end of the lower transmission rod. (One is a jam nut just to keep the other from turning.) Adjust this rod until only a slight amount of free play exists when the system is at rest. This will enable the driver to easily select low and reverse . Most Chrysler built standard transmissions including light trucks use a similar system and the procedure for adjusting is the same. If you tighten up the adjustment too much, your lever will select only low and reverse, but it is impossible to damage the transmission while experimenting with this.
Incidentally, if the steering column mast jacket is loose under the dashboard, or has turned slightly, it can compromise the gear selector adjustment just described.
Thanks, that gives me an idea where to start looking, I was dreading trying to crawl under and make sense of the linkages, but maybe the shop manual will have good pictures. Considering multi port fuel injection was standard when I started driving, these old cars are full of interesting things for me to learn!
The clutch pedal rises more slowly and with resistance when the engine is running (another guy checked and noticed it behaved different running too) compared to off for some reason. I am assuming clutch plate wear is supposed to be fine with 46k. I don't even know where\if this thing uses fluid for the clutch?
Ryan
Dear Ryan, These clutches were activated by a clutch release fork/ lever, which pressed on the cluch release bearing thus separating the friction plate from the flywheel surface. The fork was moved by a mechanical linkage to the pedal.
You should look for a service manual, if You don?t have one. Beatiful pictures explaining all this.
Greetings Go!
The 50 Plymouth's clutch linkage is entirely mechanical with adjustment easily reached from below. The rod that pushes against the throw out fork has a 5/8 locknut and a 1/2 inch bolt head which allows the rod to be shortened as the clutch wears. freeplay should be about one inch measured at the pedal. I do not know why the pedal would feel any different when the engine is running unless the pieces are binding due to accumulated dirt or rust. I have driven several of these cars for over 40 years. The clutch life under normal use is about 50 000 miles. Mechanically, the 50 Plymouth is one of the most reliable and easily serviced cars ever built.
Okay.. still waiting on my Shop manual to show - maybe tomorrow?
I still cannot get lever to move towards 2nd and 3rd - only got 1st, neut. and Reverse. Is there a common internal transmission failure that could cause this? I crawled under and inspected linkages. I only see two possible seize points 1) the rear link at the trans that moves up and down 2) the adjustable linkage with the 2 x 7/16" nuts. I tried loosening the 7/16" nuts but it was really hard to get the to move out with clearance and such. Soaked all linkage areas with penetrating fluid too. I can move a linkage by hand to shift between 1, neut. 3rd. But the lever that controls the others I can't move by hand at any point. Should it be able to move right on the side of the Trans. (sorry I'm describing this without illustrations)
I really hope this trans. isn't trash! Does the Shop manual have really clear diagrams and a trouble shooting section for this problem?
Ryan
Put the shift lever in the neutral position.
Remove the lower of the two levers from the transmission by undoing the 1/2 inch nut. (The upper lever is 9/16 ), or just remove the rod by pulling the cotter pin.
Put a wrench on the shaft to see if it is free to move. If it is free , leave the link disconnected after rotating it anticlockwise as far as it will go
Try the transmission shift lever and it will select only second and high. If it still selects only low and reverse, I would be very surprised but the trouble will be found in the selector cover which can be removed without removing the transmission. In over 40 years, I have never encountered any problems in the selector unit.
Thanks David for that step by step advice! I will try that next. If that does put it into 2nd, high how would I proceed if after fastening nut back I still have seize issues.
Ryan
Quote from: David Pollock on January 19, 2007, 10:54:10 PM
Put the shift lever in the neutral position.
Remove the lower of the two levers from the transmission by undoing the 1/2 inch nut. (The upper lever is 9/16 ), or just remove the rod by pulling the cotter pin.
Put a wrench on the shaft to see if it is free to move. If it is free , leave the link disconnected after rotating it anticlockwise as far as it will go
Try the transmission shift lever and it will select only second and high. If it still selects only low and reverse, I would be very surprised but the trouble will be found in the selector cover which can be removed without removing the transmission. In over 40 years, I have never encountered any problems in the selector unit.
I followed these directions and this is what I found: when I disconnected lower lever and manually moved it up it allowed shift lever to move through whole shifting pattern and put the car in either 2nd or high (whichever is upper lever position) which verifies there is nothing wrong with the Trans. :) but indeed the linkage. Once I reconnected it, I was back in the same boat. My book also showed up this afternoon so now I am trying to understand whether I need to adjust the gearshift
selector rod or the gearshift
control rod.
I tried backing off the nuts of the selector rod some but it did not make a difference yet. It does not help that I had to work outside in a field half hour away from home in the snow..
Thanks!
Ryan
Just in case someone is reading this for the same\similar problem in the future - I solved it by a simple adjustment as earlier recommended ... and just as the manual states! Eventually I got the 7/16" nut(s) on the selector rod adjuster in just the right position by first backing way off and then slowly tightening and check until proper shifting movement.
ryan