Hi All
I have recently acquired what I believe is a 37 Plymouth 5 window business coupe.I think it may even be a Canadian Plymouth.The vin on the ps door reads 9348392.There is a plate on the firewall in the engine bay,it reads model 42cp,body no 678 or 673,paint code 580,cannot read the trim code.The car is all original and 95% complete.Up until 2 months ago it had been in a garage for the last 20 years.The original motor is intact and turns over by hand.Strangly enough the oil is clean as could be.Almost like someone changed it and parked the car.The starter was missing but I found it in the trunk.I hooked it up on 6 volts 40 amps on my battery charger and when the lever is depressed it spins over,After a little lubing I had it spinning free and fast.The tag read maw 4009,4 ro 113 Chrysler motors positive shift starter,sarnia,ontario.When I was doing some cleaning today I noticed a made in Canada on the rear quarter glass.All the glass is intact except for the front windshield which has one bullet hole dead center of the window,but no exit hole in the car.The front window still cranks out,gauges are complete,just missing the trim for the glovebox door.The trans shifts,clutch seems to work,brakes however do not.I am a little curious as to the history of this car.I am wondering if it could have been a police car at one time.It has three holes id the ds roof that look like a mount for a hand spotlight.Also on the ds cowl there are two 3/4 inch holes for some sort of mount(siren?)The car is a dark navy blue and I spent an hour polishung up yhe ds door today.I am quite supised how shiny the paint can still be after all these years.Make no mistake it needs a repaint but kinda fun to polish up some of the dull old panels.The seats have seen better days,mostly just wood and springs left now akthough the front uppers are intact including the brown vinyl backing in great shape.Any help would be appreciated.
Take a tape measure and measure the head, 23.5 american Dodge or Plymouth, 25 inch American Desoto or Chrysler, or Canadian manufactured engine. Look on the engine block on the drivers side above the gennerator, and just below the head. there should be a number stamped there. If its a Plymouth engine it will start wit a P4. T=truck, D=Dodge, C=Chrylser, S= Desoto.
The body number is a number assigned by Briggs manufacturing, the Serial number on the door post was assigned to a completely assembled vehicle, and its sequence can tell you where and when it was manufactured. I do not have the information for 30's vehcles. The engine number if stock should agree withthe engineering series of the vehicle (P 4) and then the sequence number will follow that designation. Depending on jurisdiction most cars were titled and registered by thier engine numbers (which can be problematic if an engine swap was performed, which was pretty common back in the day) or the door post seriel number.
I think that '37 is before the Windsor engine plant came on line. If so then it would have the shorter US Plymouth block. My serial number look up tool returns this for your serial number:
Serial Number 9348392
Found in range 9339691 to 9349561
Serial 8702 of 9871
Year 1937
Make Plymouth
Model Name DeLuxe
Model Code P4
Plant Windsor
Engine 6 cylinder 201.3 cu.in. L-head
Wheelbase 112 inches
pics
pics
ok a little more automotive archeology today.head is the short 23.5 version.I know you guys said the motor should start with a p4,but mine is a p2,actuallyp2 star334398star,carb says carter on top rib then ball and ball carburator,mfd for Chrysler corp,detroit Michigan.Got the carb linkages freed up today,choke cable,etc,oil bath air cleaner was still full of oil.Driveshaft is loose at rear diff,some sort of canvas cover where the u joint normally would be and quite a bit of up and down play.
Quote from: BrianH on May 31, 2013, 10:34:12 PM
ok a little more automotive archeology today.head is the short 23.5 version.I know you guys said the motor should start with a p4,but mine is a p2,actuallyp2 star334398star,carb says carter on top rib then ball and ball carburator,mfd for Chrysler corp,detroit Michigan.Got the carb linkages freed up today,choke cable,etc,oil bath air cleaner was still full of oil.Driveshaft is loose at rear diff,some sort of canvas cover where the u joint normally would be and quite a bit of up and down play.
So you have a '36 engine in there. There is a rib on the top of the carburetor between the top of the float bowl and the mount for the air cleaner. There should be some numbers and letters punched or stamped on that which will identify the specific model Carter B&B carburetor you have.
The original U-joints are ball and trunnion style (a primitive early CV joint) and there is a boot between the joint and the driveshaft itself. Like a modern CV joint if the boot is damaged or missing dirt gets into the joint and it will rapidly wear out. The driveshaft is centered between the two joints by springs and will move fore and aft along its length but there should be no rotational play.
Ok got a chance to pick up another 37 plynouth 4 door.It has some of the parts I need for the coupe,It has a really good grill,front and rear bumpers,as well as good front and rear fenders for the p.s.Just want to make sure the fenders from a 4 door will work on the coupe.
carb numbers appear to be C6F5 if that makes any sense
Quote from: BrianH on June 03, 2013, 09:43:52 PM
carb numbers appear to be C6F5 if that makes any sense
That does sound like a Carter B&B number. When I get home next week I'll look up in my Plymouth references and see what it originally fit.
Quote from: TodFitch on June 03, 2013, 11:42:40 PM
Quote from: BrianH on June 03, 2013, 09:43:52 PM
carb numbers appear to be C6F5 if that makes any sense
That does sound like a Carter B&B number. When I get home next week I'll look up in my Plymouth references and see what it originally fit.
C6F5 is the number on my 37 Plymouth Carb.
Thanks guys,kinda weird it has a 36 motor but a 37 carb.Any chance they used a leftover motor from 36 in it as it seems to be a cdn Plymouth.I have a 54 Pontiac laurentian(cdn Pontiac) and they seem to have been built with a lot of leftover parts from previous years.Also any help on the paint code,did the cdn Plymouths use different paint codes than the us?I have seen a few paint chip pages on ebay for 37 Plymouths and the colors are close to mine but no mention of the 580 code on any of them.Again I know my Pontiac has different paint codes for Canada than its us cousins.
Engine swaps were pretty common maintanence pratices back then. When an engine got tired, usually around 50 K miles, you would go to the junk yard find a lower milage car 9regardless of the year) and plop it in. A lot quicker, and probably cheaper that pulling rebuilding and reinstalling the original.
not sure if my odometer has been rolled over,but if it hasn't it only shows about 16800 miles on it.
ok some more of the mystery solved.After cleaning some more dirt under the hood I found this 2nd tag on the ds upper firewall.It is barely readable but I can make out.chyrsler motor division,windsor,ontario,made in Canada.Also cleaned up the other tag and the trim code is AGG.
measure the length of your engine's head.
Quote from: BrianH on June 03, 2013, 09:43:52 PM
carb numbers appear to be C6F5 if that makes any sense
Back home and have a book to look at. . . The 1936-42 factory service manual shows the 1937 Plymouth to use one of the following carburetors: C6F1, C6F2, C6F3, C6F4, C6F5 or C6H1.
So it looks like C6F5 is one of the correct carburetors for your car.
my head is the short 23 1/2 engine.Is there a possibility that this car is actually a 36 model and not a 37.How would one tell the difference?Mine has the headlights mounted on the center section not the fenders so I know that makes it before 38.I found some loose parts,rods,etc in the trunk.I am pretty sure they are for the starter.I found a factory manual for the car so hopefully it will show how all these rods,springs etc fit together.I have a pretty good idea but not sure how or where they go through the firwall.I am also missing the factory remote oil filter.The bracket is on the engine and I have the bracket that goes around the canister and the two 1/8th lines are present but no canister.Hopefully I can find one somewhere.I got the hood all dismantled and started sandblasting it today.
Quote from: BrianH on June 07, 2013, 09:55:40 PM. . .How would one tell the difference?. . .
Serial number on front passenger door hinge post. . .
I looked at a few 36's online and they seem to have a different hood ornament than mine.After a half day of tinkering I think I have the starter figured out.Got the front clip off the car.No big surprises,one rot hole in the lower ds cowl and a crack on the ps cowl.All in all not bad for 1937.I will continue on tmrw on my quest to take it down to the bare frame.The brakes actually look not too bad,lots of lining left,no leaky cylinders so far.Distribiutor cap appears to be new with all new internal parts.I think the biggest challenge will be the interior.As I go I seem to think of more questions,like what is the proper motor color?Is their anyone reproducing the wiring harness,Why does my car only have one taillight and the ps fender has no hole to mount one.Alot of newb questions I guess/Gonna post some more pics of the progress.
the starter,yeah I think this is how it goes,bolt in front just temp until I can find a pin to fit.It works on the bench so far.Not sure what or if it attaches to anything on the other side of the firewall.I assume the rod goes through the big inch and and half grommeted hole and sits above the gas pedal.
Quote from: BrianH on June 09, 2013, 02:33:08 AM
I looked at a few 36's online and they seem to have a different hood ornament than mine.
Serial number on the right front door hinge post will tell you exactly what you have. No guessing about '36 versus '37 or Roadking versus DeLuxe. See http://www.ply33.com/Misc/vin but you already asked that and the answer was given at http://plymouthbulletin.com/smf/index.php?topic=3277.msg17285#msg17285
You have a 37 Deluxe based on your serial number.
Quote from: BrianH on June 09, 2013, 02:33:08 AMAfter a half day of tinkering I think I have the starter figured out.Got the front clip off the car.No big surprises,one rot hole in the lower ds cowl and a crack on the ps cowl.All in all not bad for 1937.I will continue on tmrw on my quest to take it down to the bare frame.The brakes actually look not too bad,lots of lining left,no leaky cylinders so far.Distribiutor cap appears to be new with all new internal parts.I think the biggest challenge will be the interior.As I go I seem to think of more questions,like what is the proper motor color?.
See http://www.ply33.com/Backmatter/EngineColor
Quote from: BrianH on June 09, 2013, 02:33:08 AMIs their anyone reproducing the wiring harness,.
I've had good experiences with YnZ's, with Harnesses Unlimited and I've heard others have had good experiences with Rhode Island wiring. My list of vendors can be found at http://www.ply33.com/Parts/vendor
Quote from: BrianH on June 09, 2013, 02:33:08 AMWhy does my car only have one taillight and the ps fender has no hole to mount one.Alot of newb questions I guess/Gonna post some more pics of the progress.
Passenger side tail light was an option and many/most people did not get one. Many/most restorers add them when they fix up the car.
thanks tod,appreciate the info.I got a couple hours in today and got the doors off,running boards off.Suprisingly the running board guy on the list is only a few hours away from me.Hopefully in the next week or two I can have the car down to a bare frame.I think the wordt will be repairing the rusty floor pans and then eventually trying to find some seats or someone that can remake them from the bare frames I have.Thats a long way off,first the disassembly.I have a few dings in the crossmembers to heat and bend back.I'm sure this car has seen its fair share of off road driving as back in its heyday there could not have been but one or two main roads in these parts 90 percent would have been just wagon trails here.Heres another newb question,what goes in the hole in the glovebox door,all the ones I've seen have a solid door,some sort of trim piece?
Quote from: BrianH on June 10, 2013, 12:11:38 AM. . .I have a few dings in the crossmembers to heat and bend back.I'm sure this car has seen its fair share of off road driving as back in its heyday there could not have been but one or two main roads in these parts 90 percent would have been just wagon trails here.Heres another newb question,what goes in the hole in the glovebox door,all the ones I've seen have a solid door,some sort of trim piece?
Since up to WW2 about 90% of the road mileage in the US was non-paved, it was probably "on road driving". Things we assume require 4WD were just the everyday norm for our cars in large parts of the country.
With respect to the hole in the glove box door, I would expect it to be filled with a clock but I haven't seen a P4 equipped that way to be sure.
Quote from: TodFitch on June 10, 2013, 01:54:28 AM
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With respect to the hole in the glove box door, I would expect it to be filled with a clock but I haven't seen a P4 equipped that way to be sure.
I have, in the coupe that traveled with you to Tucson. Only 37 clock I've ever seen. I have a picture of it at home, I'll try to post it tomorrow. Lee
Quote from: furylee on June 10, 2013, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: TodFitch on June 10, 2013, 01:54:28 AM
...
With respect to the hole in the glove box door, I would expect it to be filled with a clock but I haven't seen a P4 equipped that way to be sure.
I have, in the coupe that traveled with you to Tucson. Only 37 clock I've ever seen. I have a picture of it at home, I'll try to post it tomorrow. Lee
Oops. I guess I'll have to take a closer look at Lisa's car. :)
Here you go.