All,
My name is Scott, I live in Indy. I am a car junky, have a '27 Model T, etc.
My uncle has owned a 1932 PA for about 40 years. He is from the St. Louis area and dropped the car off recently at my place to get it back on the road.
It is a '32 PA. I know they only made PB's in '32, but his was manufactured in March '32 and is a PA model. Basically looking for parts then for a '31 PA if that makes sense.
The car has not been on the road in 25 years. Engine was rebuilt about 28 years ago, he put 500 miles on it and all was good. He pulled the body off, had the bodywork/paint done, got it 90% back together but never on the road again.
I have the distributor and carb at Bubba's Hot Rod Shop in Indy being rebuilt (to stock specs). Jim Linder knows his stuff on the vintage ignition and carbs.
It needs (at a minimum) interior, wiring, fuel tank installed, brake cylinders rebuilt along w/ obvious stuff after sitting 30 years - new hoses, belt, plugs, etc.
Questions... where are good places to get parts? (Wiring harness, belt, hoses, wheel cylinder kits) Can anyone recommend reputable places online or catalogs? I know the T stuff well, I am in the dark on this stuff.
Any opinions out there on putting in an electric fuel pump? Are they needed? I am keeping it 6v and my uncle provided a 6v electric pump. I know some of you are hardcore original types, not trying to start an argument. I want to keep it original, but my uncle wants it on the road and reliable.
Also, what type of oil is best to use in it? I (and most) use Rotella in the T. Not sure on this.
Below is a pic, hope it shows up
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb62.webshots.com%2F30589%2F2723962730102505413S600x600Q85.jpg&hash=b245e0715c2a5bb3bd9234094ce4f8e252045a83) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2723962730102505413Kipult)
Thanks
Scott
Scott, welcome aboard, there are some members of this forum that can help you with the car, which by the way, looks great.
I would recommend that you contact White Post Restorations in Virgina to redo your wheel cylinders and master cylinder if need be. They resleeve and rebuild them, then no worry for ever afterwards. I had them do mine and I am very pleased.
As far as wiring harnesses, you can google Rhode Island Wiring and there are other ones that don't come to mind right now.
I would suggest that you buy the current issue of "Hemmings Motor News" as there are many vendors that advertise in that book for our old Plymouths
You might want to contact Chet B and SDGlenn as they both have Plymouths close to the same year as yours,
Good luck, I hope this helps and please keep us posted on your progress,
Bob
Welcome aboard! That is a fine looking car!
Quote from: ScootM on June 20, 2012, 11:27:51 AMIt is a '32 PA. I know they only made PB's in '32, but his was manufactured in March '32 and is a PA model. Basically looking for parts then for a '31 PA if that makes sense.
Chrysler was not really into model years until a few years later and the "a PA is a 1931" mantra is really the result of later people trying to pigeonhole things. The PA model was continued into '32 as the "Thrift". And dealers might have been selling earlier PA models in 1932. That coupled with states often using the date of first registration could easily lead to a '32 identification.
Quote from: ScootM on June 20, 2012, 11:27:51 AMThe car has not been on the road in 25 years. Engine was rebuilt about 28 years ago, he put 500 miles on it and all was good. He pulled the body off, had the bodywork/paint done, got it 90% back together but never on the road again.
I have the distributor and carb at Bubba's Hot Rod Shop in Indy being rebuilt (to stock specs). Jim Linder knows his stuff on the vintage ignition and carbs.
It needs (at a minimum) interior, wiring, fuel tank installed, brake cylinders rebuilt along w/ obvious stuff after sitting 30 years - new hoses, belt, plugs, etc.
Questions... where are good places to get parts? (Wiring harness, belt, hoses, wheel cylinder kits) Can anyone recommend reputable places online or catalogs? I know the T stuff well, I am in the dark on this stuff.
First off, an amazingly good place to get parts is your "local better auto supply store". Thats the one with the old guys behind the counter with all the racks of paper catalogs. Their books won't go back far enough but if you have the old part there is a very good chance that they can match it up. I've attempted to build up a parts cross reference to help with that at http://www.ply33.com/Parts/ I am not a vendor and don't sell parts, so this is for information only. Vendor list is at http://www.ply33.com/Parts/vendor and the search function is at http://www.ply33.com/Parts/numeric or you can just browse through the parts groups. Any corrections or additions know about will be greatly appreciated.
Rhode Island wiring mentioned by Bob has a good reputation. I've had good experiences with YnZ's and with Harnesses Unlimited. All of those sources are expensive but the quality is good.
There are a number of places that can sleeve you brake cylinders if needed. I had mine done by Sierra Specialties. White Post has a good reputation and will rebuild with fresh rubber while some of the others will just do the machine work. If the cylinders are in good condition and all you need is the rebuild kit, most of the pieces should be available at your "local better auto supply store". The one exception would be the dust boots. Kits are available from "the usual suspects", that is the group of businesses that have lots of old Mopar stuff: Roberts Motors, Mitchell Motors, Bernbaum, etc.
Belts and hoses are available at your local auto supply store but might take a little matching up. Authentic era correct hose clamps can be had from places like Restoration Specialties.
Finally, there are a few garage shop type people who reproduce one or two parts each. The best place to find them is in the classified ad section of the Plymouth Club's magazine, one of the major benefits of joining the club. The web master here is kind enough to short circuit some of the need to join the club by posting PDFs of recent ad sections elsewhere on this site. Not sure where it is but a search should turn it up.
Quote from: ScootM on June 20, 2012, 11:27:51 AMAny opinions out there on putting in an electric fuel pump? Are they needed? I am keeping it 6v and my uncle provided a 6v electric pump. I know some of you are hardcore original types, not trying to start an argument. I want to keep it original, but my uncle wants it on the road and reliable.
If fitted with the original updraft carburetor I think there will be little issue with "vapor lock" as it is almost downhill from the tank to the carb. So a electric pump should not be needed. With modern gas I am finding some hot start issues when driven hard (hour plus at 60 MPH) in very hot weather (95 to 100F) on my '33. But in general if everything is in order the original pump should be fine.
One issue though: Modern gas is not kind to older rubber formulations. You should rebuild the fuel pump with a kit that is designed for modern fuel. Antique Auto Parts Cellar (a.k.a. Then and Now Automotive) has kits or can do the rebuild if you want to farm it out. Also you should replace the flex hose between the frame and the fuel pump for the same reason. Don't use a NOS replacement that has been on the shelf forever, get one made up. Your local brake and/or aeroquip dealer should be able to make up something that looks period correct enough and won't be affected by modern gas.
Quote from: ScootM on June 20, 2012, 11:27:51 AMAlso, what type of oil is best to use in it? I (and most) use Rotella in the T. Not sure on this.
Any modern oil is far better than was available when the car was new. Since the engine has only 500 miles since a rebuild there should be no reason to use non-detergent single weight oil. I use either 10w-40 or 20w-50 in my '33 depending on sale price and/or expected temperature for my driving conditions. There has been some discussion about lack of ZDDP in modern oil but the level in today's oil is about the same as in the '50s and is more than adequate for the design of your PA's engine.
Thanks for the help!
I have made a few calls on parts.
It does not have the original carb, but it has an updraft zenith that Don bought "new" 30 years ago. Jim Linder said it looked to be fine. I will rebuild the stock pump and go with that. My T has no fuel pump at all, it is gravity fed and does ok. I am guessing the stock design on this should be good, I'll know for sure after putting a bunch of miles on it.
I do not have any good paper catalog local stores here. I own a machine shop so I often make what I cannot buy. No need for any of that in this case though. Looks to be pretty straightforward.
I will post more as things progress.
All,
I have gotten alot done. Ordered a harness, gotten some part locally, some ordered. Everything moving the right direction.
One problem I have run into... The pulley behind the fan is broken. I pulled the fan off, I cannot see the front of the pulley but it appears to be pressed on. Any leads on a pulley?
Thanks
Scott
A note on the recent post also... I bought a recent Hemmings Motor News. I have called all of the vendors in there looking for a pulley.
There is a water pump on ebay which appears to have the pulley attached. Is it pressed on?
Link here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1930-1932-Plymouth-30-U-PA-PB-4-Cyl-Flathead-Water-Pump-Mopar-Rat-Rod-/140790285475?hash=item20c7c144a3&item=140790285475&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
Quote from: ScootM on July 03, 2012, 04:35:33 PM
A note on the recent post also... I bought a recent Hemmings Motor News. I have called all of the vendors in there looking for a pulley.
There is a water pump on ebay which appears to have the pulley attached. Is it pressed on?
Link here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1930-1932-Plymouth-30-U-PA-PB-4-Cyl-Flathead-Water-Pump-Mopar-Rat-Rod-/140790285475?hash=item20c7c144a3&item=140790285475&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
The current price on that water pump sounds reasonable to me.
The pulley on that pump looks a lot like the one on my '33 even though it has a different part number. On the '33 the pulley is pressed on and then through drilled and a pin is pressed into the hole to lock the pull to the shaft. Not sure if the '31/'32 is that way or not. By the way the PA and PB share the same number for that pulley.
Ok, things are coming along. I have a lot of things rebuilt. Working on wiring now, hope to fire this thing pretty soon.
Can someone confirm my generator wiring below? The old existing wires on there were like that when I got it. I got a new loom from RI wiring. From what I can see, that new black wire should hookup on the left where the cut green wire is. Is that correct? The books I have are not clear.
Thanks
Scott
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb49.webshots.com%2F51760%2F2998669500102505413S600x600Q85.jpg&hash=ef9b7544f20f62f12824fe23448015b297feeb03) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2998669500102505413pUDYvN)
Probably that is where to hook it up. Looks like a later generator with the field wire grounded to force maximum output.
Are there three brushes under that cover on the back of the generator? If so, the I guess you could leave it wired as shown in the photograph and adjust the charging rate the same as the original by moving the brush. If it is a two brush generator then you really need to replace it with a third brush generator or add a voltage regulator. A two brush generator wired for maximum charging will not be a good thing to leave on the car.
Quote from: ScootM on August 12, 2012, 10:43:41 PM
Ok, things are coming along. I have a lot of things rebuilt. Working on wiring now, hope to fire this thing pretty soon.
Can someone confirm my generator wiring below? The old existing wires on there were like that when I got it. I got a new loom from RI wiring. From what I can see, that new black wire should hookup on the left where the cut green wire is. Is that correct? The books I have are not clear.
Thanks
Scott
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb49.webshots.com%2F51760%2F2998669500102505413S600x600Q85.jpg&hash=ef9b7544f20f62f12824fe23448015b297feeb03) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2998669500102505413pUDYvN)
Thank you for the reply. I do not know what is under the cover, whether 2 or 3 brush. I will pull it apart and post some pics. I am a little out of my league (eager to learn and understand though).
I appreciate the help.
Here are pics of the gen pulled apart. Looks like 3 brush. So I can go as is and adjust the charging rate?
Thanks
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb50.webshots.com%2F49073%2F2309544860102505413S600x600Q85.jpg&hash=fe530c47a2727b1482fd3487a7d18c72a3e6afd0) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2309544860102505413RcPNso)
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb23.webshots.com%2F49174%2F2525736440102505413S600x600Q85.jpg&hash=c4042dd74e74d816373af02ba60bea79c057a3aa) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2525736440102505413bckMvr)
A couple more notes...
It is an AutoLite generator, numbers on the side of it are GED 4801 3C
Quote from: ScootM on August 15, 2012, 10:18:56 AM
A couple more notes...
It is an AutoLite generator, numbers on the side of it are GED 4801 3C
Wonder what that is off of. I don't see it listed for Plymouth between '35 (when they went to AutoLite) and '40 (when they went to two brush generators).
Not sure. I am planning to run it and see what the output is I guess. Think that is ok?
My 1935-53 MOTOR'S Repair Manual has listings for Autolite generators, but GED4801 did not show up. It didn't show up in the MOTOR'S 1936-42 truck manual either.
It also didn't show up in the generator listing of the 16th edition of the Hollander Interchange manual, which covers from 1930-48.
There were similar listings in the Hollander's manual, (GEG4801, GEB4801, GEC4801A, GEA4801A) but no exact match for GED4801.
For what it's worth,
GEA4801A is for a '40 Packard.
GEB4801B is for Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge and Plymouth, 1940-48
GEC4801A is for Hudson 1940-48
GEG4801 is also for Hudson, 1940-48
Pat O'Connor
So I am at the altar, trying to get it to run.
The engine was rebuilt 27 years ago, and he put 500 miles on it before parking, hasn't run since. Back then, he had to drag it with a chain for awhile to jump start it. I tried the same thing last night behind my Tahoe to no avail.
All wired up. Tried the foot starter button, barely moved the fan an inch. Engine was free, turned by hand with a socket without trouble. Dragged it around the block, fuel good. Felt like it wanted to or was started for a bit, would not idle though. By time I was done the engine was hot. Tweaked the distributor at a few different angles thinking timing was maybe way off. Current setup was the "best" in that regard.
Hard to tell if its spark since I am dragging it.
Distributor is rebuilt top to bottom. New plugs, wires, rebuilt carb, rebuilt fuel pump.
Below is a pic of the current setup
Ideas?
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb41.webshots.com%2F49064%2F2860537570102505413S600x600Q85.jpg&hash=93c4a7468ad12249b568801e885623429fd8e59c) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2860537570102505413dZsHtd)
If you can turn it over with a wrench and don't think the engine is too tight, then I'd figure out why the starter won't turn it over. With the starter turning it over you can better check for things like spark, compression, etc.
Reasons for starters having problems include undersized (12v) cables on a 6v system, corrosion in cables or at terminals, bad connections. Or, of course, a bad starter. I've heard that if the bearings get worn in a starter that it can bind up. Any decent automotive electrical rebuilder should be able to test and repair your starter if needed, but I'd look at things like voltage drop across the cables first to see if they are okay.
Update...
Got it running! Hot wired it with a few wires and ran it off of a 12v battery to get it going.
Definite noise in the engine, but severity varies depending on RPM. I thought maybe endplay. Noise sounds like it is coming from flywheel area, but again it varies.
Pulled the drain plug and a chunk of babbitt came out. About size of a half quarter. Misc smaller pieces too.
Going to pull the engine this weekend and take to a local shop to open it up and see what is going on.
Thanks again to all for the help.