Having a tough time replacing the non-origional rims (15") with what is supposed to be on my PT-105 and on ebay is a fellow with a set of 16" off of a P-15 that are 16" with the hubcap clips. Question is: are these going to pass as stock rims for my 1/2 ton Express model? Thanks
This is a good question to ask Young Ed on the p15-d24 forum
I think there are only two versions of the 16" wheels with inside spring clips that will accept the dog dish type of hub caps.. One style has two slots in the rim hub and another has three slots, the bolt patterns are the same.
If you are going for a high point original restoration then you would want to make sure that your truck has the correct wheels, however, if you are just trying to get wheels that will accept the correct hub caps the number of slots in the hub is a non issue... Just make sure that all four match. I probably have a full set of 16" wheels...Bill
Thank you Wm Steed, I just almost bought a set with four slots, and I do want it to be correct for 1940. Very timely for me to get your response. If you think you may have a set (or even 5 of them) I'd appreciate you looking around and get back to me with what you may want for them. I do now have a small blast cabinet to clean them up if neccessary so a little rust isn't an issue, just solid enough to be safe.
Regards, Rich
Three slot wheels measuring 16 by 4 were used in 37 by Plymouth
Four slot wheels were used by Plymouth in 40 again 16 by 4. Chrysler and Desoto were 16 by 4 1/2
Dodge (except Canada) used a wheel with a different offset because if the configuration of the brake drums . they are noticeably flar in the vicinity of the stud holes and have a different offset. Because of the flat centre, they may not fit the drums of a Plymouth.
Many trucks came with 6.50 x 16 tires which should be on a 4 1/2 inch rim. Your truck would be correct with a four slot 16 x 4 or 16 x 4 1/2 wheel found on the Plymouth or on Chrysler and Desoto respectively.
To the best of my knowledge only '37 used a three slot wheel.
Thank you David Pollock for the excellent info on CryCo wheels... I did not know until you mentioned it in your posting that the 16 x 4.5 wheel was generally used with the 650 x 16 tires on pickups and Chrysler/DeSoto cars.
I owned a company for many years that had a fleet of trucks, ranging in size from 1/2 ton through 50k.. Through the years I found that I had to be smarter than the tire salesman, the likes of which were more interested in keeping his prices lower than the competition... The failures were always blamed on driver abuse and road conditions until I got smart and found out that in many cases, the wrong tires had been put on the wrong wheels.
In the mid '60's I purchased a HD pickup to put a large camper on for family recreation. Shortly after buying the truck I started having tire troubles.. At the time the RV mags were full of articles about tire failures on RV's.. Several of my employee's had RV's, and they were having tire problems also. When I went to my tire dealer to purchase tires for my truck the question came up about the suitability of my wheels to carry a larger 8 ply tire. Doing some checking I found that I had a truck that was rated to carry 9.5k by GM, however, GM had put tires and wheels on the truck that was only rated for a GVW of 7,2k.
Shortly after purchasing new wheels and tires for my truck I got a recall notice from GM, the recall informed me that my wheels and tires were defective and that I should take the truck to my dealer so GM could replace the wheels and tires.
The Early Ford V8 and P15-D24 Forums have many ongoing thread/topics about the use of radial tires on older cars... The usual thread asks the question about using radial tires on wheels on '30/40 cars. I usually respond to these inquiry's telling the person that is asking the question that the wheel size is the big issue.. A vast majority of the early wheels are 4" wide, and in some cases as narrow as 3.5"... Most radial tires have the rim size requirement printed right on the tire casing.
As a general rule radials and 650 x 16" 6ply tires don't work well on narrow wheels... On a heavy vehicle the 650 tires will spit the rim at the bead line.. Radial tires on a narrow rim pinch the tire in at the bead line, causing the tire to have improper contact to the road surface.
Another aspect about proper wheels for vehicles is how the wheel carries the load... On automobiles the load is generally carried by the lug bolts, however, on trucks, and some heavy cars, many of the manufactures design the wheels so the hub is supported by a flange on the axle and the lug bolts.. Mopar and GM have always been very good about this design feature, where-as Ford has never seen the need to support the wheel at two points except on F250 trucks and above.
Aftermarket wheel manufactures hardly ever build their wheels so the fit the hub flange and bolt pattern carry the weight
I am going to go through my stock of CryCo wheels to see if I have any 16 x 4.5 wheels and just how many slots the three sets of wheels have....Bill
These posts are very informative. I am going to add one more consideration for my need to find correct wheels. Attached is a picture of a wheel that came off a '41 PT-125, though a close examination would reveil to you that I may not want to clean it up and use it AND the history of this truck is not far enough back for me to say its stock, I have reason to think it may be.
The rim bead separation is 4 inches...the four slots are kind of small, 2 inches... the rims I have been tempted to buy have four slots but the slots are wider, maybe three or so inches, so I am thinking they are post war 16 inch rims. If this is a correct for '41 pu rim I will clean it up a bit and post for future referance. Rich
I have located my Master Parts CD (it was pushed to the back of the shelf, out of site). I will list only the part numbers for 1/2 ton '39 and '40:
Plymouth PT-57 through PT-125 Dodge TC & VC
20X3.25 586259..............................................................................(same)
18X3.62 683283..............................................................................(same)
17Xx.xx not used.............................................................................(same)
16X6.00 (odd but went to tire size here) 862074.................................16X4.00 695292
16X6.25 & 6.50 864278 (which matches with Dodge 16X4.50)..............16X4.25 864284
16X4.50 864278
15X5.50 590618
Now, as far as appearance for these years ('37-'41 Plymouth 1/2 ton and '39-'40 Dodge 1/2 ton) the artist rendering of these wheels in these Master Parts Manuals is as my picture of a '41 PT-125 that I posted....4 slots (which are very close to 2" width) spring clips.
I now feel I know what is correct for the '40 1/2 ton Plymouth of mine but....please update me if I need a correction. Thanks
Just my two cents worth here - but I'd look for 1941 wheels (or later). Chrysler went to the safety-rim wheel in 1941. These wheels can be identified by a little ridge inside the rim that was designed to hold the bead of the tire in place in case of flat/blow out, etc. Much safer if you do have tire trouble on the road - the tire won't come rolling off the wheel. Dad put '41 Dodge wheels on th '40 Plymouth as soon as he could get ahold of a set of them "back in the old days" and they are still there! These wheels require a "bead breaker" to get them off the rim.....
After reading the earlier posts about the number of wheel slots, etc., I took out my book "Plymouth Commercial Vehicles" and looked at the photos - like most reproduced photos, they weren't too clear on the details so I dug out the original photographs used in the book, which are "first generation" photos made from the ORIGINAL Chrylser negatives. I found that many of the photos showed vehicles with black wheels so the detail was obscured. However, there were enough photos with light colored wheels that I could determine positively how many slots were on the wheels used year-by-year. 1937 used a three slot wheel, which I already knew, but I don't have any photos of that year that clearly show the wheel. 1938 wheels were also three slot. 1939-1940-1941 were all 4 slot wheels. And the slot is very short for both style of wheels. This is true for both commercial vehicles and passenger cars.