Currently on eBay there are two '39 Plym 2dr sdn's listed for sale.
When I looked at the first car, #330285519674,? a gold colored 2dr sdn that has been chopped, my first reaction was...OMG! what was the builder smoking when he came up this nightmare.
The second car, #120332720251, a red 2dr is not quite as bad, that is until you really look at the car, noting that there are no inner front fender panels/splash aprons, and the body is sitting on a butchered up late model chassis.
When you compare these two cars to the '39 conv that is also currently listed on eBay, it makes one appreciate the effort required to keep the older cars looking like they should, in lieu of butchering things up....Bill
I like the red car. It would be a lot of fun to drive. If the wing and ugly headlights were changed on the gold car, it would be nice as well.
To each his own, but I would rather have a car I can enjoy instead of a cantankerous obsolete trailer queen.
When I purchased my vehicle, a '41 TPC four years ago it was from a gentleman who had visions of building a hot Rod out of it. Once he got into the car and actually looked closely at it he realized he couldn't cut it up. He knew it was an original but didn't know how original. That's where I came in. He advertised it, as is, in a local car paper and my grandson who knew I was looking for a car of similar vintage although not necessarly a Plymouth, called me up and said I think I found a car for you. I hooked up the trailer, put cash in my pocket and drove three hours with my son in law and grandson went to look at the car. It turned out to be a two owner car, rust free with the original engine and all #'s matching to the builders card. Even down to the original bill of sale from the dealer the builder's card said it had been delivered to. I struck a deal with the owner who by the way had never transferred the tile from the second owner to himself. If everyone involved with antique autos would do just a little investigating or soul searching a lot of these original cars would stay as such. If drivers want a hot rod or modified car there are a lot of kits to build complete cars available and maybe the oldies would stay just as oldies and be restored or at least brought back to daily drivers as mine is. A lot of elbow grease and mechanical work has it reliable and I wouldn't hesitate to drive it long distances. Once I had possesion of the car and had joined the POC I was advised to contact the WPC Museum and get the builders card which then showed me just how original this car actually is.
captbrian41
Quote from: captbrian41 on November 12, 2008, 05:05:41 PM
When I purchased? my vehicle, a '41 TPC four years ago it was from a gentleman who had visions of building a hot Rod out of it. Once he got into the car and actually looked closely at it he realized he couldn't cut it up....
I had the same experience with a 33 Dodge 4dr,a car I had been lusting after for a long time to build a mild resto rod out of. Found one in northern Michigan,bought it,and went to get it. When I got it home and started looking it over I decided it was way too nice and complete to modify,so I've been looking for a restorer to sell it to ever since. This car is 99%complete right down to the original engine and trans,and only has 1 rust hole in a rear quarter that is about the size of my index finger.
I agree with your statement that there are too many cars out there already stripped,rusted away,and missing parts to be hot rodding complete and original car in good condition.
Since I started this topic a few weeks ago I have received a few emails praising me for taking what some people construed to be a stance against modified vehicles.
Quite to the contrary..... with some exceptions, I prefer modified vehicles over stockers. Since Mark took over the POC Bulletin web site and I re-listed my 39 Plym conv coupe? topic, over 8k people have read my ramblings, the majority of which have pertained to modifications I have done to the car.
On the other hand, my 31 Plym PA, can it be saved.. topic, has also enjoyed significant readership. It is my intent to keep the '31 Plym stock because the '31's are such unusual and rare cars.
My topic about installing a '48 Desoto Spitfire engine in an unmolested '48 Plym might also be construed as being criminal. To my way of thinking... if I can save a sixty year old vehicle and power train from the scrap yard by marrying them together,... I have done a good thing.
I try my best to keep my modifications from being as "invasive" as possible. I like the look of old cars with their bug eyed headlights and fat fenders, but I also like them to be reliable and safe.? 8)
One last thought.............. Happy Thanksgiving to All
....Bill?
Like you I personally prefer modified cars that are safe and practical to drive.
My 48 P-15 has a Camaro frame clip,engine,trans,and rear.
My 37 Dodge 4x4 truck has Ford running gear with a 390.
I'm putting a dual outlet master cylinder on my 42 Dodge business coupe,along with radial tires.
I'm even putting a 6-carb DeSoto hemi and a push-button 727 in my 33 Plymouth coupe.
I just don't personally believe in making permanent alterations to complete,solid,and original cars. There are too many around that have already been stripped of their original running gear and other parts that can be used to build hot rods to be stripping out a good original car anymore. This ain't the 1950's and 1960's when there was still plenty of original cars around to be bought cheap.
Besides,there are still people who like to restore them for various reasons. Why not sell a complete and original car to a restorer to make him happy,and then use the money to buy a stripped hulk and buy the updated parts with the money left over,making YOU happy? Looks like win/win to me.
Putting a "Spitfire" engine in a '48 Plymouth wouldn't be a modification if it was a Canadian Plymouth. From 1938-1959 all had the 25-inch long block flathead six. LANNY KNUTSON
Quote from: LANNY on November 27, 2008, 07:38:20 PM
Putting a "Spitfire" engine in a '48 Plymouth wouldn't be a modification if it was a Canadian Plymouth.? From 1938-1959 all had the 25-inch long block flathead six.? LANNY KNUTSON
What about the Fargo pickups? Did they all have the 251 Chrysler engine in them?
No, 1/2 ton Fargo trucks all had the "long block" engine bored to 3 3/8" with various stroke lengths - getting larger in displacement as the years advanced. As noted, all Canadian built Plymouths, Dodges, De Sotos, Chryslers, and Dodge and Fargo trucks had the 25 1/2" engine from 1938 until the flat head was discontinued. The advantage we had, and still have, is that any of the blocks can be bored to 3 7/16" plus allowable overbore (0.040 safely and 0.060 if you are adventuresome) and fitted with the 4 3/4 stroke crank, rods and pistons giving 265+ cu. in. displacement. Whenever I had the occasion to rebuild a Plymouth or Dodge engine I always went for the full displacement - 265 cu. in plus the necessary overbore. Best of all, the engine retained its original designation (assuming it was the original engine) and without serious inspection no one could tell.
Brian
Brian,correct me if I'm wrong,but aren't both the 251 and the 265 engines long block engines? I was always led to believe that the small Chrysler flat 6 (the 251) was used in the DeSoto and starter level Chryslers,and the 265 was used in the upscale Chryslers. Am I wrong about this?
Of course,the big trucks all had the larger displacement engines,just like some Ford trucks had Lincoln engines.
I had just been assuming that the half-ton Fargo trucks had the "short" (230 Dodge) engines in them,but it looks like I was wrong about that one.
Yes, they are both long block engines. All the Canadian long blocks, whether they started out as 3 3/8 bore Plymouth, Dodge and small Dodge and Fargo trucks (I think up to 3 tons), or 3 7/16 bore De Soto and Chrysler and bigger trucks, can be "upgraded" to the maximum displacement as used in Chrysler and the larger trucks.
As you probably know, we made a Dodge line of cars using the Plymouth body shell with Dodge trim as well as the "large' Dodge that was very similar to its US cousin. That gave us a lot of options to mix and match.
Quote from: Bender on November 28, 2008, 07:32:55 AM
Brian,correct me if I'm wrong,but aren't both the 251 and the 265 engines long block engines? I was always led to believe that the small Chrysler flat 6 (the 251) was used in the DeSoto and starter level Chryslers,and the 265 was used in the upscale Chryslers. Am I wrong about this?
Of course,the big trucks all had the larger displacement engines,just like some Ford trucks had Lincoln engines.
I had just been assuming that the half-ton Fargo trucks had the "short" (230 Dodge) engines in them,but it looks like I was wrong about that one.
In the U.S. and Canada, the 250.6-cid six was used in Chrysler Royal and Windsor models from 1942 through 1951 and then the 264.5-cid engine from 1952 to 1954.?
The U.S. DeSoto used the 250.6-cid engine from 1951 through 1954 while in Canada DeSoto used the 250.6-cid engine in 1951 and then the 264.5-cid engine through 1954.? ?
The 250.6-cid engine was also used from 1956 through 1959 in Canadian-built Plymouths and Dodges ("Plodges") and also in 1955 on Plymouths and Dodge with Powerflite (engine number has an "X" at the end).? ?Non-Poweflite Plymouths and Dodges used the 228.1-cid engine.
Chrysler of Canada used the long block flathead six for all Canadian-built cars and trucks from 1938 when the Canadian engine plant opened through to 1959 for cars and into the 1960's for the trucks.
Bill
Vancouver, BC
Back to your original topic. :P
Not to be too deep, but I believe that everyone on this board and all auto enthusiasts enjoy the artform and excitement that cars bring to so many. Like any art form, everyone has their taste. Many can be interesting, but not your cup of tea. Some even try their own hand at it, with mixed results. Skilled or not.
In the end, I do believe that those that are safe and DRIVEN are great! Concours restore or backyard spraybomb. But to never be enjoyed, behind a barn or in a museum, is a waste. :'(
So throw the family, dog, trophy, or wrenches in the car, and have fun! Does not matter if it is flathead stocker or 70's gasser shocker! :o
Quote from: Wm Steed on November 27, 2008, 12:44:47 PM
My topic about installing a '48 Desoto Spitfire engine in an unmolested '48 Plym might also be construed as being criminal.
....Bill?
I would really like to see a Desoto Spitfire engine. It must be the rarest of all. Dont get me wrong. I am not a purest. I have installed a Desoto flathead 6 cylinder engine in my P-15. However the Spitfire engine is a Chrysler only engine. Desoto never had a spitfire head on any flathead 6 cylinder engine. I do have a Chrysler spitfire head ready to install on my Desoto engine.