I recently purchased a very nice 48 Plym sedan which had been sitting since 1968 because some one removed the eng/trans. While transporting the '48 on an open trailer I was approached by a fellow that had a '48 Desoto which he wanted to sell. The 48 Desoto was in poor condition, however, the car ran, the engine was whisper quiet. Needless to say I bought the Desoto.
As I recall, the Spitfire engine has more HP then the Dodge/Plym engines, however, I seem to recall that the Spitfire engine will go into the Dodge/Plym cars with very little difficulty.
I would appreciate any help that could be given to me to repower the 48 Plym with the Spitfire engine....Bill
A fellow named Don Coatney installed a 25 inch Chrysler block into his Plymouth and mated it to a T-5 transmission. He posts a lot over on the P15-D14 discussion forum. I am sure he can give you a lot of details on his experience.
Bill-
On page 276 of the 16th edition of Hollander's, the '48 DeSoto engine is listed as being a swap with '37-48 Chrysler 6 cyl. engines, also '37-48 DeSoto 6 cyl. engines, and some Dodge trucks.
Plymouth and Dodge cars are not mentioned; apparently it's possible, but not without some modifications.
The only engine swap I've been personally involved with was a '65 Chevy II six into a '62 Chevy II, so that's all the help I can offer on this topic.
Regards,
Pat O'Connor
Bill - the DeSoto engine into the Plymouth shouldn't be too difficult. Remember, the Canadian Plymouth had the long block engine from the factory. I've been told (haven't done it myself) that the radiator mount has to be turned around but the frame is already drilled to accept it that way. That will move the radiator the 2" required for the longer block.
I did the long block swap some years ago on a 54 that had been cut down into a truck , as jim said the frame is already drilled to accept the front mounts being further forward , and apart from turning the radiator mount around and maybe altering the throttle linkage there should be no further modification needed
A big THANK YOU!!! to everyone that responded to my question.... the POC has a great bunch of members.
Since I have no intention of restoring the '48 Plym, my only thought being to save it. In reality a running vehicle, even if the engine is not quite correct, is much more desirable than a dusty dirty vehicle with no engine & trans sitting in a shed.
Lady luck really smiled on me when the fellow with the Desoto stopped me, as I said in my earlier posting, the Desoto was junk with close to 30% of the floor pan rusted away. In addition to the great engine, honey comb radiator, and the grille, the majority of the chrome trim on the car is very nice. I have already removed the good parts from the car except for the engine which we will not take out until we are ready to install it in the Plym....Bill
I have installed a Desoto long block flathead 6 engine into my 1948 P-15. Of interest if your engine has a "Spitfire"
head it is either a Crashler engine or someone has installed a Crashler head on it. Spitfire heads were only used on
Crashlers. The engine serial number should tell you what it is.
Here are a few of the "shade tree" things I did to make this engine fit.
I had to modify my front cross member to make the harmonic damper fit.
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv65%2FDonCoatney%2FRadiator%2F77.jpg&hash=df65b619634aea207630c84627f58afcc6ddccd3)
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv65%2FDonCoatney%2FRadiator%2Fframe.jpg&hash=79e2bce30adecb18c24a631f668c44b99fd6d269)
I also had to not only reverse the radiator bracket but also modify the radiator bracket lower mount.
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv65%2FDonCoatney%2FRadiator%2Fbracket1.jpg&hash=43235484f416499d4fbe65445c2002384a8f20fd)
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv65%2FDonCoatney%2FRadiator%2F12.jpg&hash=b2f64940d88cf5c93847cd8c89830d7c0cddc0c5)
Even with the modified bracket the radiator still sits too close to the waterpump to use a belt driven fan.
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv65%2FDonCoatney%2FRadiator%2Ffanclearance.jpg&hash=d19584552d73c8a0b2b56334e20a93fdd86eaaac)
I had to go with an electric pusher fan and also notch the fenders out so I could install the radiator.
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv65%2FDonCoatney%2FRadiator%2Fcoolingfan.jpg&hash=62b7609f4b2685bb288b66db052d2b00ef0e50cc)
There are several other minor things required. It was a tight fit to get this engine in there but well worth it in my book.
I have driven this combination about 15,000 miles with no problems. I live near Nashville, Tennessee. I have driven my
car to Northern Ohio, Northern Indiana, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Concord, North Carolina, Arlington, Virginia, and I have plans on
driving to Detroit, Michigan later this month. In addition to this long block Desoto engine I have installed a 5 speed
overdrive transmission and a 3.55/1 differential. I can run 70 MPH and the engine is only turning 2200 RPM's. With this
combination I can pull all but the steepest of hills without down shifting. If I can be of additional assistance let me know.
Bill - I found an old file with that address you asked me about....if you still need it, contact me. I tried your email address but it bounced back....JB
The conversion of the '48 to the Desoto Spitfire engine turned out to be a little difficult in lieu of a bolt in application. One of the things that made the conversion a challenge was that the Spitfire had an over-drive trans. We decided that? since we were upgrading the engine why not use the OD trans. We did not stop at just re-powering the car. We went through the brakes, installing a complete new set of brakes. The car runs and drives very nicely.
When I find a car like this '48 that is complete without a dent, no rust out, perfect chrome, etc., that has been sitting since 1968, it makes me wonder, why did someone remove the engine? The removal of the engine appeared to be a very hasty job. All of the wires were cut, even the main loom was cut at the firewall. (We pulled the wire loom out of the Desoto, it worked perfectly) The majority of the bolts were in the back seat along with the hood ornament. Here again I find this to be odd, why would a person carefully save bolts etc., if they were in such a big hurry that they cut the wires?
In September I got a call from a friend of mine that has an in with a auto salvage yard. He told me that they had hauled a '47/48 Desoto into the yard, the car had been in a shed which had burned. There was front end fire damage, however, the majority of the car appeared to be worth saving. I could not get at the car for a couple of weeks, so the yard owner agreed to set the car aside until I could get there.
In mid September I went and looked at the car, the fire had taken it's toll on the engine, melting the carb, fuel pump, radiators, etc. Unfortunately the Fulton Sunvisor on the car had also melted. The engine was not a Spitfire and the trans not an OD, so I removed everything I could unbolt. Some of the parts I got was a nice fuel tank, which I needed, and a full set of 15" safety wheels.
After working all day on parting the car Desoto out, I called it quits. I told the yard owner I was done, he picked the Desoto up and put it in the crusher, a very sad end to another orphan....Bill
Don Coatney wrote:
I have installed a Desoto long block flathead 6 engine into my 1948 P-15. Of interest if your engine has a "Spitfire"
head it is either a Crashler engine or someone has installed a Crashler head on it. Spitfire heads were only used on
Crashlers. The engine serial number should tell you what it is.
I have a 1945 Dodge 1 1/2 ton truck with the "spitfire" engine and I have always assumed that it was the correct motor in it. It was used as an apple hauling truck during apple season in Nothern California and is a lower milage truck. It was running when I bought it a few years back. A fellow wanted to buy it a couple of years ago and I charged the battery in it and it would not start so I still have it. It has a Smith Gasoline heater in it with a line that comes directly off of the carburator float bowl (these might have been common in cold climate areas but it is the only one I have ever seen). At one point I thought about installing a diesel motor and running gear out of a 91 Dodge 1 ton in it and bobbing the frame to pull my 5th wheel but changed my mind.
The 'Spitfire' engine I used in the '48 has the Spitfire head. The Desoto it came out of appeared to be an unmolested car with under 70.k on the odometer. I did not look at the engine number because the engine ran so well and the fact that it had a Spitfire head would imply, without much doubt, that the engine was a long block Chrysler engine.
As if, or how?.. a Desoto could be purchased new with a Spitfire engine, is something that could probably be debated till the 'cows come home'. I learned a long time ago, that when it comes to automobiles, and women, you want to avoid using the terms.....always? and never? ;D ....Bill
Quote from: Wm Steed on November 24, 2008, 12:47:45 PM
The 'Spitfire' engine I used in the '48 has the Spitfire head. The Desoto it came out of appeared to be an unmolested car with under 70.k on the odometer. I did not look at the engine number because the engine ran so well and the fact that it had a Spitfire head would imply, without much doubt, that the engine was a long block Chrysler engine.
As if, or how?.. a Desoto could be purchased new with a Spitfire engine, is something that could probably be debated till the 'cows come home'. I learned a long time ago, that when it comes to automobiles, and women, you want to avoid using the terms.....always? and never? ;D ....Bill
I just sold a 47 DeSoto coupe a few months ago that was low-mileage (around 60,000) and looked to have never been molested in any way. It had a Spitfire head on it.