I'm working on getting my 41 stripped down for paint. Any ideas on how to remove the windshield? I've got the inside trim removed. The rubber is very hard and brittle. Should I just start chipping off the old rubber or is there some other method I should be doing. Thanks to all!
Stephen in FL.
Stephen:
If the rubber is really hard and brittle it needs to be replaced, or you will have leaks. If the windshield is still ok, then sacrifice the rubber and save the glass. You can get new rubber from Steele Rubber.
Brian
Stephen,
I don't have any tips on removing the windshield glass. I just cut out the old hardened material in pieces and then removed the glass. It wasn't? until I tried to reinstall the glass that I cracked the passenger side piece. Fortunately it is simple flat glass and an auto glass shop can cut a new one. I also wanted to point out that the Plymouth wagons used the Plymouth convertible cowls and windshields and I believe the windshield gasket is special to the convertible and wagon. I bought one for my '41 wagon from Steele years ago. They had them listed for the convertible.
Jim Yergin
Excellent, I plan on new glass (mine is becoming less than clear) and a new rubber surround, (as said, mine is just too old and brittle to be of any use) but I appreciate the insight. I didn't realize that they used anything different on from the windshield forward on any of the models. I kind of thought they were all the same. Of course... now I'm starting to wonder about those nasty looking running boards...
Jim,
I thought that the glass was laminated for the windshield and tempered for all other
glass. Or, did they use different glass before WWII? Also, my car has the
glass maker, type and code etched in one corner of the glass plate.
I've only got a marking on the drivers side glass.? I"ve taken a photo of the logo and attached it below.? To those that have replaced it, is there a difference in glass between wagons/convertibles and sedans/coupes/deliveries?? was it just the rubber gasket?? Is my logo correct, can it be duplicated and does anyone care?? ? ?Also, does anyone have another dash for a 41?? Mine has a non-functioning aftermarket clock that my great grandfather installed on the passenger side of the dash.? I'd like to either repair this hole or just replace the dash, since I'm this far in anyway.? Thanks!
Stephen
(https://www.plymouthowners.club/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi239.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff268%2F41woodie%2FIMG_1410.jpg&hash=3f56a3c138c6a105d7155cfb35aa67535d39b6b3)
Bill, I wasn't referring to the type of glass, just that fact that it was flat. As far as I can tell both my windshield glass and my window glass is laminated safety glass.
Stephen, years ago when I first bought my '41 wagon, the National Woodie Club tech advisor for 1941 Plymouths told me that the dash on the wagons and the convertibles was different from the other '41s. I have never verified that. My factory parts book has a different part number for the convertible dash but that could be just because the convertible dash was painted body color while the other models had wood grain. However, there is yet another different part number for the wagon dash which could mean that it is the convertible dash with wood grain and that could mean that there is some other difference in the basic dash used by the convertible and the wagon. I wonder if anyone on this forum could clear this up.
Jim Yergin
On the logo: you can use the hydrofloric acid stuff in the kits that are used to frost windwings on roadsters--mainly Fords from Model A's to a '36. you scratch the design in the 'wax' coating then put the liquid there--etchs the design .
you can test it first.
just type 'glass etch kits' into google and you will find lots.
The logo on the glass is called a "bug". It can be etched with a paste acid as described in an earlier post. Most art glass stores carry the acid in stock, or it can be ordered on the Internet. If you want an original looking job, you need a computer cut pattern. It is cut like a stencil into a film similar to contact paper and then stuck to the window. The acid only etches the exposed part of the glass. I will be doing a pattern in the future, but I don't have one now.
The logo you show is not what was original on my '41. The laminated glass (windshield and side window glass) had a "DUPLATE" or "DUOLITE" logo. The tempered glass (wind wing, quarter windows, rear window) said "HERCULITE". These were the old names for different types of PPG glass.
If you order glass from a local shop, you should indicate "no bugs" as commercial glass comes with these markings on the corners to identify the brand and type of glass. They just need to cut your glass from a part of the sheet that has no bugs.
My car is a P12 ASC body that was built by Chrysler. Other bodies (Briggs) could have used a different brand of glass making the logo in your picture correct for your car. My knowledge is limited to my car.
Stephen,
On your question about the removal of a windshield......
The best way to remove an old windshield is to cut the rubber from the inside of the car. The windshield rubber is usually in need of replacement so it is not to great of a loss when compared to the value of the glass. I recently had a $250. windshield and stainless trim ruined because the repair man was trying to save a $40.00 rubber.
The windshield rubber for a convertible and the wagons is the same as is the inside molding and stainless trim. On my '39 conv there is no difference between the conv. dash and the dash for a closed car. I have two spare conv dashes and two closed car dashes, the only difference is body color paint in lieu of wood grain.
Since the issue of tempered glass and the 'bug', glass manufactures logo, was brought up I will add my two cents worth.... If a person is building a concourse show car the 'bug' can be important, however, it don't mean spit on everyday cars. In reality I have seen several unrestored cars with bugs that were different from windshield to side glass and rear glass. I have a 36 Ford Coupe which has glass codes that run from 4/36 through 8/36. I always find it to be very interesting on OVERLY RESTORED cars, when the window bugs/logos are identical.
Tempered glass did not appear in general use until curved rear windows came into use in 1940. Tempered side glass did not come into general use until the early 1950's....Bill
I continue to be amazed at the confusion some have between accurately-restored and over-restored. :D
On the issue of tempered glass, please note from the PPG history that Herculite was introduced in 1938. It was used by Crysler Motors in 1941. Duplate laminated plate glass was introduced in 1928. For complete accuracy, the roll-up windows were actually Duolite glass. That was laminated Pennvernon Sheet Glass as opposed to Duplate for the windshield that was laminated polished plate glass. The strength of the two types of laminated glass were equivalent. The polished plate glass was used in the windshield because it provided superior vision.
The History of Glass Manufacturer PPG Industries
Glass manufacturer PPG Industries was founded in 1883 as the Pittsburgh Plate Glass Co. The company's first plant, at Creighton, Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh, was the first commercially successful plate glass factory in the United States.
Glass Technology Highlights
1883 - The Pittsburgh Plate Glass Company is established in Creighton, PA.
1910 - PPG builds its first glass research and development center.
1925 - PPG begins mass-producing sheet glass.
1938 - Herculite? tempered glass, several times more shatter resistant than plate glass, is introduced.
1945 - Twindow? double-paned insulating glass is placed on the market.
1963 - PPG becomes the first U.S. glass manufacturer to use the float process.
1983 - PPG introduces Sungate? 100 Low-E glass, the world's first low-emissivity glass.
1989 - Sungate? 300 Low-E glass is introduced.
1989 - Azuria? (formerly Azurlite?) window glass is developed, providing a low shading coefficient with high visible light transmittance.
1992 - Intercept? insulating glass spacers are developed.
1993 - Sungate? 500 low-E glass is introduced.
1995 - Sungate? 1000 Low-E glass is introduced.
1997 - Intercept? DSE insulating glass technology is launched.
2000 - Solarban? 60 Solar Control Low-E Glass is introduced (formerly Sungate? 1000).
2001 - PPG introduces SunCleanTM Self-Cleaning Glass.
2003 - PPG introduces Caribia? Spectrally Selective Tinted Glass
2005 - PPG introduces Solarban? 60 on Solargray Glass
2005 - Extra-Heavy Starphire? Ultra-Clear Glasses introduced as standard product
2006 - PPG introduces Solarban? 70 XL Solar Control Low-E Glass
At the risk of promoting OVERLY ACCURATE restoration of Plymouths, I have attached photos of the glass "bugs" that represent the three types of sheet glass used in at least some 1941 Plymouths.
DUPLATE was used in the windshield
DUOLITE was used in the roll up windows
HERCULITE was used in the fixed panels including wind wings, quarter windows and rear window
There were also different versions of these logos used when the glass was supplied to different distributors/ customers.
Yes, that means an accurately restored car will have different bugs on different pieces of glass...and all on the same car.