Does anyone know if the free-wheeling transmission and automatic clutch from a 1933 model Plymouth fit the 34 P E Plymouth ?
Thank you
Gary in Alaska
PC (but NOT PCXX), PD and PE use part number 603728 for the "Transmission case" so I think they should be bolt for bolt compatible on the transmission.
The automatic clutch assembly I picked up for my PD looks slightly different from the one in my owner's manual but does fit in the correct place and all the linkages match up. With one exception that is: There is a stud/pivot that screws into the block a little aft of where the oil lines connect. The assembly I picked up has a shorter piece there than works with my engine, so I suspect it was off of a wider block (DeSoto or Chrysler) 1934 car. That should not be an issue between the 33 and 34 Plymouth as they share the same basic block. So I am pretty sure that the 33/34 Plymouth automatic clutch are interchangeable.
Tod,
Thank you for the information on the the " automatic clutch " . My car came with the automatic clutch and " free wheeling " transmission but a previous owner removed them both. A friend is making a hot rod out of his 33 Plymouth coupe and has offered to sell me all the parts on the automatic clutch and free wheeling transmission. I first wanted to cry when he told me what he was doing with his car....its a rust free car with all numbers matching :'( .? I have already bought the 17 inch wood wheels and hub caps from him.? ?
Gary
AK,
Please let me implore you to avoid fitting the free-wheeling transmission in your car, if your car now has a standard clutch and transmission.
That free-wheeling system can literally be killer under certain circumstances, if the lockout slips out whilst you are on a down-grade, and you lose your engine braking. Even tho the '34's have Lockheed hydraulics, the drum size, and lining swept area are so small that those brakes will fade all too quickly on any serious longish grade.
(the road we live on goes from 400' elevation to just over 4000' elevation in twenty-some miles.......there have been some bad wrecks, and a few people lost on our road from brake fade......no joke.....)
Anyone who has ever spent any time herding a truck of any size will have been warned, ever so seriously, by experienced drivers "never, under any circumstances, attempt to shift down on a grade......always slow and make your downshift before you crest the grade. The reason for this, of course, is if you miss your shift, you lose your engine braking, which could.....no joke.....get you killed when your brakes fade."
We still have the automatic clutch parts for our '34, which I've removed from the engine and stored away, and we still have the free-wheeling gearbox.......which is coming out as soon as I can get the strength up to get back to working on the car.
If your car will be primarily a display car, and there are no steep grades where you commonly drive it, and you feel you really must have those pieces for exact originality, I will happily give you the ones from our car ('34 PE), the only thing I would ask for is some help locating a non-free-wheeling gearbox in good serviceable condition.
(there is one caveat.......you're welcome to the parts, but if you wreck your car or kill yourself with that 'extremely imprudent' (to put it mildly) free-wheeling box, don't blame me.....I gave you fair warning)
cheers
Carla
Hi Carla,
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts about the free wheeling transmissions and how dangerous they can be. I wanted to put my car back orginal but you have certainly given me some food for thought on if I really want to do it or not.? :) . Gary
Hi, Gary,
Y'know, I really don't think there's an 'originality' issue, per se, with the free-wheeling box.
True enough, your car may have had one when it rolled off the assembly line...........but its entirely possible that its very first owner might have said to the dealer......"I'll take this one, but take out that silly clutch thingamie and just put a regular transmission in the car before I pick it up, alright?"
The dealer, of course, would have had non-free-wheeling transmissions for the PF cars 'on the shelf', and it wouldn't have taken his mechanics very long at all to make the conversion.
Obviously, no one can say that it happened like that, but it could have......there's no reason whatever why that Deluxe couldn't have had that silly clutch system replaced with a standard box when it was first sold.
cheers
Carla
Gary,
I can't contribute anything to this discussion, except to say that I really like your car.
Mine is a '36 convertible (dark blue (probably repainted before I bought it) with red upholstery (possibly not original).
Mine is a 20 footer (looks OK 20 feet away).
Good luck with your transmission.
Regards,
Pat O'Connor
Magnolia, IL
There is a knob on the dash that controls the freewheeling and automatic clutch. At least on my car, leaving it in the "locked out" position works. I will admit that I almost never move the dash control out of the lock out position as I much prefer to have "engine braking" available. And I never drive in the mountains with the freewheeling enabled.
I have driven over Mount Hamilton (on the road Carla speaks of) with my car and will admit that it is not an easy one to drive, especially in an older car with small drum brakes and limited power. That road definitely requires the freewheeling and automatic clutch to be locked out.
However I don't see the need to remove the freewheeling transmission nor the automatic clutch for safety reasons. Simply leave the control in the locked out position.
The reason to remove the automatic clutch would be different: The air inlet to the unit has no effective filter and sufficient dust may have been pulled through the unit to wear the spool valve that controls the unit. Making an effective repair on the valve is non-trivial and with out the repair you could be introducing a vacuum leak that could cause some mixture control drivability issues. On the other hand if you simply plug the line from the manifold to the automatic clutch you can have the car look original and not worry about a vacuum leak. If your unit is, or can be made, leak free then I see no reason to remove it from the car.
The 'free wheeling" fearure found on the early Plym's is some-what simular to the overdrive transmissions that became popular in the late thirty's and are now the norm for modern vehicles. The free wheeling units and manual overdrive transmissions all allowed the vehicle to "coast" in free wheeling and allowed the transmission to be shifted without the clutch except when starting or stopping the motion of the vehicle.
Unfortunitly most drivers never read the vehicle owners manual so they do not know that they should disengage the free wheeling/overdrive unit while operating the vehicle in steep hilly areas.
I have a friend that has a late model Jeep Grand Cherokee, we both have houses located in a very hilly area, he has had a lot of brake trouble with his Jeep, where-as I have not had any trouble with my GMC Yukon's (3 of them since 96) . After the third brake job on his Jeep and complaints to Chrysler, he found out that he was surposed to shift the AOD trans out of OD in the hills. My friend asked me if my GMC's had AOD transmissions, I replied yes, but that I always shifted from OD to D the minute I left the main hiway.
The Instructioin Book for my '31 PA (Second Edition 12/31) is somewhat vague about disengaging the free wheeeling feature, simply saying.... "In many instances the driver of the car may not wish to use the Free Wheeling feature when negotaiting long hills or mountainous country". Hmmmm? That statement sure would not fly in todays llitigation prone society.
As with many things in life, one should not let the "directions on the can out smart you".....Bill
Hey Gary,
Nice Car! :o