I am planning to replace the clutch assembly on my 52 Plymouth and have run into a snag in trying to remove the pilot bearing.? I have a slide puller but am unable to get enough pull on the bearing to remove it.? It came out about a 1/16th of an inch and even with about a half hour of pounding and liberal applications of PB Blaster it moved no more.? I cannot tell if the bearing is in the crank or the flywheel.? Can some one enlighten me?? Has anyone had any success with screw type pullers?? This thing seems to be in there pretty tight.? If in the flywheel,? is removing it and having the bearing pushed out and pushed in the best way?? Thanks in advance for any help.
Dear Jeff,
p. 61 of Service Manual shows a cross section and the removal procedure: pilot bushing is into the cranc shaft.
"The use of tool C-41 will facilitate the removal of worn or scored pilot bushings.
To remove a pilot bushing, screw the tapered pilot of the tool into the bushing, allowing the pilot to cut its own threads until a solid grip is obtained. Insert the puller screw and rotate forcing the bushing out of the crankshaft."
Take care not to widen the bushing while threading. Do it with a lot of back turns to release the filings out. Maybe a bolt plus a hex nut against the bushing can give You a possibility to really turn the bushing out with a wrench? First point must be not to score the cranc?s hole.
If You have a puller which fits inside the bushing, a strong tube letting the bushing pass could give the counter face for athat puller.
Good Luck! Go
This is the old fashioned backyard mechanic method. I have sucessfully used this method on several occasions. The principal of operation is hydraulic pressure. Locate solid steel round stock that is just slightly larger in diameter than the pilot bushing hole diameter. On your bench grinder, make the last inch or two of the diameter just fit smoothly into the bushing and long enough to touch the end of the crankshaft. The steel round stock should be long enough to hand hold and be able to give it a good strong hit with a short handle hand sledge hammer. Here's the hydraulic part------Fill the bushing hole cavity completely (no air pockets) with old fashioned wheel bearing grease. Now you have a "hand hammer operated human hydraulic press". It may take several good wacks to start the bushing movement, but you will marvel at the sight of the bronze bushing being PUSHED out of the crankshaft. Above all-- Have fun.
Oh yeah! That's tech an idiot like me can put into action. ;D
Bruce's method is the easiest and best around - works every time. Use a caliper or micrometer to measure the diameter of the end of your transmission shaft that enters into the pilot bearing/bushing, or get someone to do it for you. I can't remember the diameter for sure, but I recall it as 0.625" If this is the case then go to a local machine shop and buy a length of cold roll - not hot roll - rod of the correct diameter. It should then just slide into your pilot bushing. I have used this method repeatedly as standard shop practice, and never had to use more than a 2 lb hammer and a few good whacks. Wheel bearing grease works really well.
Believe me, that rankest amateur can make this work
The bushing is in the crankshaft and I have used the grease method more than once with good results.
What you may not know is that the pilot bushing itself remained unchanged in many applications right up to the present date, and was installed in many crankshafts which were coupled to automatics so the bushing remained as new.
Needing a bushing one day, I stood a 318 or 360 crankshaft upright, filled the pilot bushing with water, inserted an old transmission input shaft which I use for a clutch alignment tool and smacked it with a wooden mallet. Presto, a new bushing for use in a 51 Plymouth. (Probably spent the money I saved on beer)
David, The proper "backyard mechanic" procedure is to have the beer first but save the last shot for the bushing driver.
Thanks everyone for the ideas. I will give them a try this weekend.
Plymouth Cranbook
I know thisn is possibly a silly question but why are you replacing the bush is it badly worn, over the last 20 odd years i have replaced the clutch in numerous CHRYSLER
sorry about this it seems i have hit the wrong button by mistake , as i was saying i have replaced the clutch on quite a few chrysler product cars over the last 20 years and have never had to replace a pilot bearing (bush) and have never had any problems
I am replacing the bushing in the better safe that sorry routine that many of us have become familiar with.? Many years ago I had a 66 Fury three with a 383 and a New Process four speed.? The throw out bearing failed and I disassembled everything to get to it and replace it.? Two months later the pressure plate failed and I had to do it all over again.? Thus I learned that anytime I replace something that is a pain in the butt to do I replace everything that I feel might cause a redo.? Call me silly if you like but I almost never need to redo anything do to extra parts failure.
Well so much for the hydrostatic plan. I bought a steel rod that just fits into the bearing, filled it to the top with wheel bearing grease and began pounding with a five pound hammer.? Didn't move a bit.? Felt the rod bounce on the grease and none came out around the rod so I suspect the fit is good.? I guess I will buy a screw type puller and see it that works.? If anyone else has another idea please let me know.? Thanks.
I will suggest removing the grease from the inside of the pilot bushing only. This would allow the "drive piston" rod to penetrate the bushing for at least 1/2 inch and still have a good volume of grease to push the bushing out.
Quote from: brucepine on September 05, 2007, 11:53:51 PM
I will suggest removing the grease from the inside of the pilot bushing only.? This would allow the "drive piston" rod to penetrate the bushing for at least 1/2 inch and still have a good volume of grease to push the bushing out.
I will try that, thanks.
One Question - in the first post you said "It came out about a 1/16th of an inch and even with about a half hour of pounding and liberal applications of PB Blaster it moved no more. I cannot tell if the bearing is in the crank or the flywheel." Explain what you were pounding on - the bushing is in a dead-end hole - pounding any way except the grease rod method will just make it go farther into the crank.
If you have damaged the bushing a lot, the grease method may not work. You may have to find a way to break the bushing or use a hack saw blade with a handle or taped end to carefully cut the bushing inside the crank - this is dangerous - if you damage the crank you are in deep trouble.
Mark
Quote from: POC-Admin on September 09, 2007, 11:52:06 AM
One Question - in the first post you said "It came out about a 1/16th of an inch and even with about a half hour of pounding and liberal applications of PB Blaster it moved no more.? I cannot tell if the bearing is in the crank or the flywheel." Explain what you were pounding on - the bushing is in a dead-end hole - pounding any way except the grease rod method will just make it go farther into the crank.
If you have damaged the bushing a lot, the grease method may not work. You may have to find a way to break the bushing or use a hack saw blade with a handle or taped end to carefully cut the bushing inside the crank - this is dangerous - if you damage the crank you are in deep trouble.
Mark
This was done using a slide type inside jaw bearing puller.? The bearing pulled out about 1/16 inch or so and then stopped.? The pounding? was on a steel bar using the grease method.? I am going to try removing a little of the grease as was suggested earlier.? I alos ordered a pilot bearing screw type puller and will see if that works if all else fails.? There doesn't appear to be any damage to the bearing to this point and I plan to keep it that way. Note; the only movement came while using the slide puller.? The only response to the grease method was a bouncing of the bar on as it compacted the grease.
Just a quick note to let those interested that the pilot bearing is out.? It looks a little rough but the screw type puller I bought withdrew it with ease.? Thanks to all who offered help.? Now to put in the new one(it is already in the freezer).
There was a special tool which was readily available, years ago, which was the exactly correct special tool for this job. I've seen it in the 'Plomb' , 'Snap-On', and 'Owatonna' makes, and there were likely other makes of it as well.
One of the more obvious answers would have been to do a bit of research in old tool catalogues, to get a part number for the tool, and then start asking around for one. (I made the mistake of loaning mine out, and never did get it back)
Another technique, which works well for pretty much any stuck bronze bearing, is to measure the inside diameter of the bearing, and then look in the chapter on threads in 'Machinery's Handbook', the 'American Machinist Handbook', to see whether any standard or metric tap comes close to matching the i.d. of the bushing on its minor diameter (Actually, these days, you simply ask the question on the machinists' internet board)
If a suitable tap can be obtained, thread the bushing, wind in a suitable capscrew, and use any suitable puller on the capscrew.
cheers
Carla
Quote from: Carla on September 13, 2007, 03:05:36 AM
There was a special tool which was readily available, years ago, which was the exactly correct special tool for this job. I've seen it in the 'Plomb' , 'Snap-On', and 'Owatonna' makes, and there were likely other makes of it as well.
One of the more obvious answers would have been to do a bit of research in old tool catalogues, to get a part number for the tool, and then start asking around for one. (I made the mistake of loaning mine out, and never did get it back)
Another technique, which works well for pretty much any stuck bronze bearing, is to measure the inside diameter of the bearing, and then look in the chapter on threads in 'Machinery's Handbook', the 'American Machinist Handbook', to see whether any standard or metric tap comes close to matching the i.d. of the bushing on its minor diameter (Actually, these days, you simply ask the question on the machinists' internet board)
If a suitable tap can be obtained, thread the bushing, wind? in a suitable capscrew, and use any suitable puller on the capscrew.
cheers
Carla
[/quote
Thanks, I got a puller from JCWhitney that took it right out, the next trick is putting the new one in without any damage.
there was a special tool to install them to so you didn't damage the edges especialy the internanal ones
Do you know where I might get one Elmo54?
Here is a picture of the tool catalog showing the tools. These recently sold on eBay (in nearly new condition) for a substantial amount of money. As I recall they went for 30 to 50 times their original catalog price.
Thanks for the info, sounds like a spare bushing is cheaper.